Why is God so childish and mean that he cannot forgive us, unless he murders Jesus first?

Question

According to the believers, God cannot just forgive us. He has to murder his son first. He couldn't even forgive his son when he cried out "Father, why hast thou forsaken me"? What a terrible God this must be, as portrayed by the Christians!

Answer 1

Study the Bible more. That's not what it says.

Answer 2

First of all, God did not murder Christ. Jesus willingly gave His life so that we all could have eternal life. He was the symbolic sacrificial lamb.

You must remember that Jesus was God in the form of man. He had all of our good qualities but was unstained by sin. Yes, Jesus probably got colds, stumped his toe, skinned his knee as a child, and liked some friends better than others. It was His human self that cried out on the cross at that moment. This shows us His humanity in that He could even doubt His Father momentarily.

When He went off alone for 40 days before His last supper, He knew that God would do. When He was in the Garden, He actually could have backed out of the deal. But He did not. He made the sacrifice for us. He fulfilled his purpose that was made clear when his Mother conceived him by the Holy Spirit. It took the drama of the crucifixion and resurrection to get people's attention.

Please do not be angry with God. He loves you. Jesus loves you. Our Lady loves you. The Holy Spirit watches over you.

Santa Fe

Answer 3

If God is perfect, then he can't have anything to do with imperfection. There had to be blood sacrifice to cover sin, and Christ's blood finished this once and for all. Before that it had to be done on a regular basis. It doesn't mean God doesn't still love everyone, just as a parent still loves their child even when the child is doing something the parent has forbid.

I'm not sure about the thing about Jesus...I would hold that Jesus never had to be forgiven, as he was carrying all the sin on his back, he was still perfect. But I don't know...I don't really understand the full scope of that verse

Answer 4

There was no way we can get back to God; we are simply not good enough! What was needed to change this situation was someone with no personal sin or wrong, someone perfect in every way, who could bring us back to God.

Before this could happen, the problem of human sin had to be dealt with. God dealt with it in a remarkable way.

God is not only perfect love; He is also perfect justice. His justice rightly demands that all sin and wrong must be punished. We all recognise that a judge must uphold the law and justice must be done, otherwise anarchy will reign everywhere. But God's perfect love is also shown, by sending Jesus into our world to take in his own sinless self all our sin and guilt. If there had been any other way, then God would certainly have found it.

Jesus suffered on the cross the death penalty our sins rightly deserve. Because the consequences of our sins were laid on Him, He experienced the hell of being cut off from His Father as he hung there on the cross.

On the cross Jesus took on Himself all the effects of human sin; all feelings of isolation and abandonment, all the pain and suffering all the rejection and anger of the whole of humanity.

Just before He died, Jesus cried out, 'It is finished!' His work of saving us from sin and death and hell was complete. These words can also mean that a debt is paid.

The bridge has been reopened between God and us. Friendship with God is there for all who come to Jesus in love and trust.
Christ died for sins once and for all, a good man on behalf of sinners, in order to lead you to God.

Answer 5

God is not childish or mean

Sin however is primitive and obscence. God forgives sin but does not leave the guilty unpunished.

The only way to be both mercify and just would be to take the punishment upon the Jesus so that whose who glorify God leaning on the work of Jesus on the cross might believe and have eternal life

Answer 6

You are an idiot. Pick up a bible. God was able to forgive us before that... Just everyone had forsaken him so he wanted to show us he loved us enough to sacrifice his own Son. And God did not forsake his Son. Jesus was sent to this Earth with a mission, which he understood from day 1! And in the end Jesus is in heaven with God. Doesn't sound very forsaken to me. You are going to feel really forsaken in Hell if you don't open your eyes and read the bible for yourself.

Answer 7

You unfortunately misunderstand.
God doesnt not forsake his only son nor is he so childish as to murder his own beloved son. There is a saying that goes like this "Dying for a friend is the greatest love" and Jesus the Christ died for us for our sins. The father lost his only son a sacrifice for the new commandment between men and God. This is the ultimate sacrifice and that is why it happened. If you havent heard before, Jesus Christ was and is without sin, so the Father didnt have to "forgive him." By the way what would you scream out with your last breath as you are hung up like a common criminal to die for other people sins?

Answer 8

The wages of sin is death, that was and is God's law from the beginning. He cannot change His law because God never changes as the Bible says.

In reality as we sin we should die. Mercy is what is keeping us and the death of sin allowed us to be forgiven, or else there would be no forgiveness. Its because he loves us that he had to do what he had to. He didn't say that he loves us so much that he would change his law for us and allow us to sin as we wish. His law remains and thus the consequence of breaking it is remains.

All humanity is now involved in a great controversy between Christ and Satan regarding the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe. This conflict originated in heaven when a created being, endowed with freedom of choice, in self-exaltation became Satan, God's adversary, and led into rebellion a portion of the angels. He introduced the spirit of rebellion into this world when he led Adam and Eve into sin. This human sin resulted in the distortion of the image of God in humanity, the disordering of the created world, and its eventual devastation at the time of the worldwide flood. Observed by the whole creation, this world became the arena of the universal conflict, out of which the God of love will ultimately be vindicated. To assist His people in this controversy, Christ sends the Holy Spirit and the loyal angels to guide, protect, and sustain them in the way of salvation. (Rev. 12:4-9; Isa. 14:12-14; Eze. 28:12-18; Gen. 3; Rom. 1:19-32; 5:12-21; 8:19-22; Gen. 6-8; 2 Peter 3:6; 1 Cor. 4:9; Heb. 1:14.)

Answer 9

You seem to be missing the whole part about who God really is. Above all, God is sovereign. Creation proves this. If God says it, it happens. That's power. That means he is totally and completely in charge.

And there will be a judgement day. Whether or not you believe it is relevant only in that you will be judged for not believing.

That also means he is the basis for everything. He is the only valid point of reference. You call him childish, because you are comparing him to a child. Yet, he created children. You call him a murderer, but only He has the authority to define murder.

So, when he created us, he established some very basic rules and one simple consequence. Death for disobedience. We're the childish ones for trying every imaginable route to circumnavigate the rules.

And Jesus death wasn't God's fault, its yours and mine. Jesus voluntarily gave his own life as payment for your consequence. He did it because he loves us enough that he doesn't want to see us get what we deserve. He died to forgive you for hating God.

Someday there will be a day when you'll stand before God and be judged for calling him a murderer. It is your decision now, whether the judgement will fall on you, or if you'll accept Jesus' sacrifice.

Claiming to be better than God is the basis of all sin.

Answer 10

Reading through the answers, I see:

- you just don't understand the Bible
- go read the Bible
- that's not what the Bible says
- god didn't kill him, he was sacrificed for us
...and on and on.

So many of the Christians here don't even seem to understand the basic question which is, why is a sacrifice required for the forgiveness of sin, rather than god just saying, 'eh, i forgive you' without someone having to die first.

The answer is simple from an outsider's perspective; the mores of society have changed since the first century. They just don't want to admit that their religion is rooted in barbaric beliefs.

Answer 11

What you're pointing out is the absurdity of the predominant Christian doctrine of the atonement, i.e., the usual explanation of the salvific efficacy of Jesus' life and death. And you're completely correct to do so: this notion of a wrathful God who kills a blameless victim in our place is amoral barbaric nonsense. Just as we no longer govern ourselves with a feudal regime (the origin of much of the theology which talks about humanity's "offense" against God, as if he were an outraged feudal lord), we should no longer let such ideas deform our theology.

There are a lot of other possibilities for a doctrine of the atonement. At the time Anselm was systematizing the doctrine you describe, Abelard was suggesting a model of imitation: Jesus saves us by giving us the perfect model of humility and love. You could look at a book by Denny Weaver, "The Nonviolent Atonement."

At any rate, I can observe one thing. Jesus does objectively save, heal, and elevate humanity by his teaching. Every example of human progress and enlightenment of the past thousand years had its ultimate origin and inspiration in Christian faith. The real tragedy is that the institutional church tried to crush those genuinely Christian sentiments. The problem is not with Christian faith. The problem is with Christian institutions.