If there was war in heaven even before humans were created, and sin, then how can heaven be what most think?

Question

Alright, so we begin with there being only Heaven, only perfection. Then Lucifer chooses to defect. But for him to even be able to choose to do so, God had to allow it, right, because nothing can happen without God's approval, right? So then there's a war in Heaven, so war isn't this amazingly unique human invention after all - it's just one more legacy handed down direct from up above. But if there was war and sin before humanity was even created, doesn't that mean that Heaven would be a lot different from what people commonly think - i.e., end to all suffering, all questions, all hardship. If sin is built into perfection, then it seems like Heaven would be more like a refined version of Earth. Input, please.

Answer 1

Dude... it's metaphor.

Heaven represents unity with God. Satan is the part that sees itself as separate. By embracing "Satan" (i.e., distinguishing yourself as a seperate entity from God), you metaphorically cast yourself out of that perfect state of unity.

The stories are turned into a big, operatic war in the clouds because it's really hard to describe the indescribable without using symbolism, but really it's all just metaphor describing the human condition of separation from "paradise," whatever that may be.

If you take the book literally, you're missing its meaning altogether. And, if you're Christian and you take the book literally, you're creating a golden calf and dancing around it...

Answer 2

Heaven is not a place, Heaven is being in the presence of God. God gave angels free will, They can choose to rebel against God(sin). Oh yeah and some say that there really wasn't a war, but there was Lucifer wanted to take God's Thrown. You wrote that nothing can happen with out God's approval: that is wrong. If that were true we wouldn't have free will. We do! I can give biblical proof that angels have a free will if needed. For some reason some people think they don't.

Answer 3

I can understand why you might think that way, but let me submit to you this:

The reason there was war in Heaven was indeed, that Lucifer chose to sin. And it is true that he had free-will to do so.

However, the fact that He started a war up there doesn't make it like earth, or a place where sin reigns, like here.

What happened is that Lucifer made his choice, claiming God's (perfect) government was oppressive. The fact that he had the freedom to openly rebel tells you that it wasn't an oppressive government. Anyway, Lucifer claimed that he (lucifer) could run a government better by not having moral laws. He tried to take over heaven and he wasn't strong enough to win there. Instead of killing him and thereby scaring all the inhabitants of all the other inhabited planets--we'd be pretty arrogant to think we are the only ones in the Universe, wouldn't we?--God exiled lucifer to Earth. Lucifer (satan) has been ruling this earth for about six thousand years, and we can see the results. So can the inhabitants of the other inhabited planets. When all is said and done and when everyone can see the results of sin, God will come and re-claim the earth--since it was His creation in the beginning. He also made provision for any inhabitants of earth who wanted to live with Him in sinlessness forever. Every person will have a choice as to whether or not they want to sin and whether or not they want the consequences associated with it.

Utlimately God wins the war for Heaven AND earth, but satan will have had his fair chance so that everyone, on every planet can see that God is not unfair or scarey--like satan tries to portray Him. He is to be reverenced and held in awe, but He's not mean.

But it all belongs to the creator God and in the end, satan loses.

Answer 4

Okay this is long and way to hard to explain, so I'll do my best.
First of all, the Romans were probably closer to the truth then we are today. Even though God IS THE highest power, it dosen't mean he's the only power. And if you have multiple powers in heaven, there are intelligent forms of disagreement within these powers. Disagreement leads to war. God probably wasn't much of a part in this war, it was probably just his minions. The angels are not delicate flowers as we think now, but strong dependant warriors. There are the clerks, the healers, the fighters, the trainers. But ALL are warriors in thier own way. Point is, Heaven is paradise, But even God has his disagreements with Lucifer.

P.S. By the way, you may all hate me for saying these things, but my religous guess of heaven is as good as any. It is how I've been taught.

Answer 5

God allowed sin to exist because of his justice. If he had destroyed Satan then and there he would not seem just and if he didn't create Lucifer then there is still a chance that some other being with defect sooner or later, and to prevent that then he would either have two choices - do not create anything at all or create them without free will. In His just and loving character he warned Lucifer and heaven what sin is but they didn't really know because no one every sinned before and Satan got worst and worst. The controversy that you and I are in now is evidence of what God is talking about when he warned about sin - with what is unfolding now all heaven and earth will see sin and Satan for what it really is and for this reason we will never want it to happen to us again. The Bible says that iniquity will never again rise.

All humanity is now involved in a great controversy between Christ and Satan regarding the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe. This conflict originated in heaven when a created being, endowed with freedom of choice, in self-exaltation became Satan, God's adversary, and led into rebellion a portion of the angels. He introduced the spirit of rebellion into this world when he led Adam and Eve into sin. This human sin resulted in the distortion of the image of God in humanity, the disordering of the created world, and its eventual devastation at the time of the worldwide flood. Observed by the whole creation, this world became the arena of the universal conflict, out of which the God of love will ultimately be vindicated. To assist His people in this controversy, Christ sends the Holy Spirit and the loyal angels to guide, protect, and sustain them in the way of salvation. (Rev. 12:4-9; Isa. 14:12-14; Eze. 28:12-18; Gen. 3; Rom. 1:19-32; 5:12-21; 8:19-22; Gen. 6-8; 2 Peter 3:6; 1 Cor. 4:9; Heb. 1:14.)

Answer 6

Sin was not thought up by humans. Humans were given the temptation of sin, resulting sometimes in war. Lucifer thought he was better than God. God wanted to see who really was faithful to him, thus letting it go for a while. Then, when the time was right he kicked Lucifer and Lucifer's followers out of Heaven. With all evil forbidden there now, God is preparing it for us!

Answer 7

This is an excellent question and IN NO WAY DOES THE BIBLE CONTRADICT ITSELF HERE. Its a simple question of Morality. God does allow free will and Satan (Satan meaning adversary or liar (however "lucifier was the first, so called the original Satan or liar"), so in that way every angel that followed him was "a satan") and his followers did create War in Heaven and were tossed out on their proverbial ears. That left them with ONLY ONE PLACE TO GO. The Earth. That is why the increase in mankinds sorrows in the last century.

The angels also taught men how to make war and weapons of war (Genesis 6:1-4) when they gave birth to the Nephilim and almost destroyed mankind in such a savage fashion that even the Earth begged God to destroy Man, so Noah and his family found refuge (Noah being found perfect in his age. His perfection did not come from being extra good, for he was not. His so called perfection came from the fact that he was descended from AN ALL MALE LINE FROM ADAM, proving that he was clean to God and not of the off-spring of the angels and the nephilim. Since his linage was known to be pure before god, he and his were saved.

Also, we must realize that Heaven is not a reflection of the earth, but the earth is a poor (think very, very poor reflection of Heaven), after all Heaven was created much, much before the earth came into being.

Also, god does not promise mankind eternal life in Heaven but on Paradise Earth after all, why make an earth to be inhabited for just a few thousand years (Gen. 2:17, 8:22). Also God's purpose, therefore, is for the earth to be the habitation of man in PERFECTION and happiness with eternal life. (Psalms 37:11; 115;16; Isaiah 4518; Revelation 21:3,4)

GREAT QUESTION!!!!

Answer 8

Wow.There are people out there that are starting to get it.A lot of the Bible contradicts itself.The whole idea of Heaven seems wasteful to me in the first place.I mean,if everyone there is so good,then shouldn't they be here helping others?I don't believe in Heaven.I think it's great when other's do,and I would feel a lot better if I did,but I just can't do it.Doesn't seem logical.The question is,if we are created in God's image,why is there so much wrong with us?Why does God let so many bad things happen?Why doesn't he come down here and spank humanity and send us to our rooms to think about what we're doing?I'm not being sarcastic,really.There are a lot of things that the Bible can't explain.I've read too many of these thought-provoking questions.I'm short-circuiting.

Answer 9

wow that was different... i can only believe what the bible tells me heaven and hell is like. How is got that way is not my worry. What happend between God and Lucifer is not my worry either, The part I value is that whatever did happen between them resulted in the separation of Good and Evil ensuring me that however i live my life will determine where i will spend my eternity be it the Good or Evil.

Answer 10

Myself being a satanist I've come to realize that there is no heaven and hell there is only here and now. the whole concept of heaven and hell was put in place by the self righteous Christians to scare people into taking their money so they can give it to their so called god.