I have to ask: Why intercessions with Mary and the Saints are wrong?

Question

Catholics: I know you pray to God and Jesus,
but you don't actually put Mary and the saints above God, do you?
what does it mean by intercessions?

what kind of deception?

catholics do not worship Mary and the saints like pagans do with the spirits do they?

Catholics: do you put pope above God?

David S... the bible verse does not specifically called the babylon = catholics, that's a random interpretation and does not answer my question.

ernest77h.. do you put the pastor in your church above god? if he tells you what he gets from God will you believe him? Isn't he the shepherd of God's flocks? -- the same goes to the pope. He's the pastor. I don't get all the fuss.

but how come i feel the Holy Spirit is so strong in the catholic church, how come?

God's mysteries are beyond bible.

Mary is the queen of heaven... hmm... because she bore Jesus?

Answer 1

We can’t talk to the saints because they are not in Heaven YET. This topic deals primarily with the state of the dead. Are the Saints in Heaven right now? The Bible teaches that they are not. The Bible teaches that the Saints are asleep waiting for the resurrection. So if they are not in Heaven they can’t intercede for us. To better understand this read below.

Talking about death we should look at how life was created
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. - Genesis 2:7
From this we see that the soul is the combination of both the breath of God and the physical body.
So what happens when you die?
1) In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for dust you are, and to dust you shall return.- Genesis 3:19
2) And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. - Luke 23:46
3) Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. - Ecclesiastes 12:5

From these scriptures we see that when you die the two components of the soul either decay (the physical body) or goes back to God (the spirit)

Many people believe that the spirit is some intangible ghostlike substance but if you look at what the bible says
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils - Job 27:3

From this we see that the spirit is the Breath of Life not a … ghost (for lack of a better word)


Do the dead go directly to heaven or hell?

Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the Lord.
Psalms 6:5 In death there is no remembrance of thee.
Isaiah 38:18 Death can not celebrate thee.
Psalms 146:4 His thoughts perish.
Job 21:32 Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die; but the dead do not know anything, nor do they have any more a reward; for their memory is forgotten.
From these verses we see that there is no thought in death

Some may argue that these are all Old Testament examples of the teaching of death so lets look at the New Testament
Jesus speaking about the death of Lazarus
These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. John 11:11-14
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose
1 Thessalonians 4:15 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1 Thessalonians 4:14 Them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
There are some people who are in Heaven now and the Bible tells us how they got there
1)Enoch was taken directly to Heaven Genesis 5:24

2)Moses was resurrected early Jude 9. notice what it says
even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the BODY of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
If your spirit flies off to Heaven why is Michael fighting for his body

3)Elijah went in a fiery chariot 2Kings 2:11

4) it is believed that those resurrected when Jesus resurrected Matt 27:52 went to Heaven when Jesus ascended.


If we look at what Jesus said on the cross in Luke 23:43
And Jesus said to him, Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.

Many use this to prove the point that we go directly to our reward. The problem is in the Greek there was not a comma, the comma was placed centuries later by people who believed that we go directly to our reward. If you move the comma it conforms to the rest of scripture

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Read on and Jesus tells Mary he did not ascend to heaven yet.


But doesn’t the Bible say to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord?

As I mentioned above the Bible says we do not go directly to heaven or hell. I think we should look at 2 Corinthians 5, but rather than only looking at verse 8 lets look at the whole chapter in order to gain better perspective. If you read the whole text we see Paul talking about three states of being. In chapter 1 Paul writes 1) our earthly house {our earthly bodies} 2) a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens {glorified bodies}. In verse 3 he says 3) naked.

The question to ask is when do we get our glorified bodies?

1 Corinthians 15:51 says we get them at the last trumps when Christ returns proving we do not go directly to heaven upon death.

If we go directly to heaven or Hell when we die then there is never a time when we are “naked”

Let’s look at what Peter said in Acts chapter 2

Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:29

For David is not ascended into the heavens
Acts 2:34

[Speaking of Stephen] when he had said this, he fell asleep. Acts7:60
So when do we go to heaven?

He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the LAST day. John 6:55

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. I Thessalonians 4:16

We go to heaven when Jesus comes


http://prophecycode.org/meeting-list.asp


this video explains the state of the dead
http://prophecycode.org/Resources/Video/PCVideo/ProphecyCode_13.asx


The Bible teaches that they are not in Heaven they are sleeping waiting for the resurrection. The Bible also teaches that it is a sin to try to talk to those that are dead.

You can email me if you have other questions



PS David's accusation is right, but that is another question.

God Bless

Answer 2

I asked a catholic once and he told me "we don't put Mary above Jesus...just next to Him...."
Problem 1: "The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger" - catholics call Mary the queen of heaven....logicly this would come since Jesus is the king then Mary is the queen, well that isn't good.
Problem 2: If Mary is that important, then why don't at least the apostles talk about her? Why don't the gospels say something about her acts - wonders for example. It doesn't make sense.
Problem 3: Mary wasn't a virgin....she was when she made Jesus born, but after that, she had more kids....."Mat 12,46. While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him"
well, well ,well......Jesus had brothers...how could He have brothers?....I think the answer is clear.

Problem 4: There is only one intercessor...Jesus

Answer 3

Intercession by saints who have passed on from this mortal plane is a non-biblical practice that is based upon ignorance and man made traditions.

Jesus told us to pray to the Father in His name. In 1 John 5 we are told that if we pray according to God's will that He will hear us and we will have what we have asked for.

In Romans chapter 8 we are told that the Holy Spirit prays for us when we don't know how to pray for ourselves. In the book of Hebrews we are told that Jesus is at the right hand of the Father interceding for us.

With all of that clear truth given to us in the Bible, what possible reason could one have to ask a human whom we have no Biblical reason to believe can hear us to intercede for us with God?

Can they do a better job of intercession than Jesus? Can they know the will of God better than the Holy Spirit of God?

Answer 4

Catholics have a prosperous custom of intercessory prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary and the Saints who're very holy those with particular advantages in heaven. Mary is Queen of Heaven, and mom of the Church. Who does not choose their mom and different holy human beings to wish for them?

Answer 5

The catholic church is called "MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" in Revelations 17 verse 5. The harlots that come from her bare the protestant churches. For proof of her identity just compare her doctrines with the Bible at: http://www.acts1711.com/jesus2a.htm

Answer 6

I used to be Catholic... I got smart and saw through the deception.

There is only one mediator between God and man and that is Christ Jesus. 1 Tim. 2:5

Answer 7

BUT THEY DO PUT THE POPE ABOVE GOD THAT IS BLASPHEMY POPE BY DIFFENITION MEANS FATHER.
Mt 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mt 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mt 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Answer 8

I think for this part, we need to understand the importance of praying FOR the ones who has passed, not praying TO them.
Catholics pray FOR them not TO them. Catholics pray FOR them so that they who has passed will find their rest at the hands of the Lord. Mary and the Saints are worthy of respect because they are people who God Himself anointed. Catholics only ask their help to pray to the Lord for us. The truth behind if this is acceptable to God or not remains a mystery. As a charismatic Catholic, I can say that God knows a person's heart and if that person truly believes in Jesus and follow His good examples then I am sure that God will consider this more.
All these Christians are trying to find unimportant differences among themselves when they need to focus on what is important (Jesus) and what is common.

Acts 10:42
He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead.

1 Corinthians 3
On Divisions in the Church
1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? 4For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere men?
5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

Answer 9

No, we don't put Mary and the saints above God. We ask for their "help".