Why do Christians violate their own argument by saying God doesn't have a designer?

Question

If you say this complex Universe had to have a designer,

God had to be complex to design it

If god is complex, (using your own logic), he has to have a designer

If God created himself, he didn't need intelligents because he can't have intelligents if he doesn't exist

If intelligents is not neccessary to create the Universe, the Universe could have created itself

Face it, you're screwed any way you look at it. You've been tricked

If you say God has always existed. I can say the Universe have always existed

Answer 1

"If god is complex, (using your own logic), he has to have a designer"

Your logic just fell apart there. If you aren't going to post your reasoning, you aren't going to get as many people taking you seriously. No only that, but you are working under a lot of assumptions that each need to be "proven" in order to be used in a logic argument.

Answer 2

Where I believe Christians would find fault in your question is in your hypothesis that a complex design requires a complex designer.

First, understand that from a thelogical perspective, "simple" means "having no parts" and "complex" means "composed of parts." Therefore, when Christians say, "God is simple," they mean that his nature is such that it is uniform and indivisible -- i.e., it is the same throughout, and it cannot be broken down into parts. The universe, on the other hand, is obviously non-uniform in character and is composed of an infinite number of parts.

So the question is, "Can something simple (like God) create something complex (like the universe)?"

But even this question isn't really formed properly because it presumes that the creative "something" is anything like the created "something", and this, too, is a false presumption. Christians hold God to be utterly unlike His creation: His nature is totally transcendant and utterly incomprehensible. So a "simple something" in the created universe may have limitations that do not at all apply to the "simple something" which is the nature of our Creator. This necessary distinction invalidates your initial premise and consequently voids your conclusion.

Answer 3

First of all, use spell check. It's "intelligence" not "intelligents".

And, though you seem to feel like you've had a breakthrough of logic, your argument is flawed.

But let's go with your line of reasoning. You're basically saying if I claim the complexity of the universe implies an intelligent designer (God), then the creator must be even more complex, and therefore also implies an even higher intelligent designer. So someone must have created God, the "God-Creator"

Of course, that means someone had to create the "God-Creator". A "God-Creator-Creator" I guess. But wait, he'd have to have a creator, the "God-Creator-Creator-Creator". By your logic, backwards in a long line of God-Creator-Creators.

But there's only 2 places your argument lands. Either with what is called the "First Cause" or the ultimate, very first God-Creator. Or the line of Creators goes back infinitely with no beginning.

So here are your choices, Mr. Wizard. Belief in a First Cause (God the creator) or an infinite succession of gradually more complex God-creators, like one of those Russian nesting dolls, where each holds another slightly smaller god.

I think your backwards lineup of an infinite number of gods is too much for me. Maybe you have enough faith to believe it, but I don't. I believe in one God, who wasn't created, but who created the universe. No logic problems there, Sparky.

Answer 4

Human reasoning is unable to completely comprehend God He's just too big for our puny brains. So all we can rely on is His Holy Word the Bible. He explains everything to us in there in terms that made sense to the Israelites. In the Bible He states that He created everything. That's good enough for me!

By my understanding your reasoning that God must be complex is faulty. To create and design the universe God has to be All-Powerful and All-Knowing. All-Powerful does not automatically mean complex. For example, fire is very powerful but a very simple mechanism for. All-knowing does not imply complexity either. In fact complexity tends to lead to confusion and ignorance! Just look at our governmental system!

God is the very essence of goodness. He created the world and us to have something to shower with love and goodness. It's not his fault we keep screwing up.

God loves you even if you don't love him! You were "wonderfully and fearfully made" regardless of your own opinion!

Blessings!

Answer 5

"If you say this complex Universe had to have a designer,"-Yes
"God had to be complex to design it"- Complex only to us.
Everything greater than us we call complex but really the only complex thing is us. I would say that the universe is magnificent in every way in which it works, for its creator is magnificent.
Just us being a creation makes us want there to be a creator for God.

Answer 6

Infinite Intelligence is the Source of all Creation. The smallest sub-atomic particles we can hardly see with the greatest atomic microscopes do one thing when we're looking at them and another thing when we're not. It shows the photon as possessing intelligence, memory, concern for its environment and above all it moves in exact unison, no matter how far apart, with the other particles of its system.

This proves that even as a witness, which is what we really are, that which we are witnessing is influenced in its behavior by our witnessing it.

This reflects the deepest truth uncovered by science and philosophy and that is the fundamental truth of unity. At the utmost sub-nuclear level of our reality, you and I are literally one.

Answer 7

who says that if something is complex it must have had a designer? besides, what makes you say that God had to be complex to design it? if God-complex or not- is not bound in time, matter, nor space, it means that he is out of those boudaries. see, we are bound in these, we change as time passes, we are limited. For God, time is something that doesnt effect him

Answer 8

It's very simple and straight forward, -- God is the CREATOR, everything else is the creatED stuff.

And no, God did not, or have to be complex, - he just had to exist.

Answer 9

Why do you feel you're so secure to attack other's religion? People can believe what they want to believe. If you were actually curious, say it in a way that actually shows you're a human being. Stop being such a mutant and actually have feelings for others. Or are you too big for that?

Answer 10

God was going to get a designer but then just decided to go to Ikea instead.