Is free will just an illusion?

Question

I have come to recognize two things in humans, and I am wondering if anyone can give a good example that contradicts these two premises...

1. The Human Will - We ALWAYS choose what we want most at any given moment. If we have competing desires, the strongest desires at that moment will win.

2. Freedom - We are not the source of our desires. I never sit down to establish my desires. Our desires just are what they are. And, we are NOT free to change the direction or intensity of our desires at any given moment in time. The only exception to this is when we already want to change our desires, but then where did THAT desire come from.

If #1 and #2 are true, then we do not have free will because we always do what we want most, and we are not free to change those desires that lead to our choices.

I also find out this truth from the Word of God:

"The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord;
he turns it wherever he will." (Proverbs 21:1)

The question is, can anyone give me an EXAMPLE that contradicts one of those two premises? I'm not looking for how strongly you think we have free will.

#1 - Give me an example where your strongest desire "lost" when choosing.

#2 - Give me an example where you had one desire but sat down and made yourself change your desire in direction or intensity. If you think you do do this, then where did the desire to do it come from?

And to the guy who thinks I'm an idiot for even asking this question, you need to try reading this:

http://www.jonathanedwards.com/text/FoW/FOWOutline.htm

No one has given a single concrete example to either of these...just a lot of philosophical jammering and confidence that they MUST be false...I beg Yahoo to give 1,000,000 points to anyone who actually gives me an example of a situation where #1 or #2 do not hold...

Answer 1

FREE WILL is about CHOICE. Desire is a IMPULSE which you can CHOOSE to fulfill, or ignore. I & 2 are NOT True. Get to Know Thyself!

Answer 2

I think the idea of free will has come to mean so many things to so many people these days. I don't think we always "choose" what we want at any given moment. WE ALL do things we don't want to do. But we have other choices that we MAY choose. I had up to this point thought that free will was "the ability to do for oneself". I also believe that there are 2 forms of free will. 1 coming from us being part of humanity. No other animal on this planet has the abilities which we do. And the 2nd is that being of a people. Political, cultural, etc. What we here in the usa CAN choose may be different than that of another country.
If everyone acted in their best interest or according to their desires, there could be no mistakes. I have wanted to be an archeologist for about 15 years now. I still desire to do so. But I haven't. But free will says that I could if I wanted to. Not researched information, just a point of view.

Answer 3

I think that particular quote just means "If you don't approve of what the king is doing, don't worry about it, it is God's will." But does that apply to presidents?
Remember the saying "God give me the courage to change the things I can, the strength to endure the things I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference."

A counterpoint to #2: When you are buying something big, say a house, car, computer, etc. most people do sit down and establish their desires. Also, people will suggest you do something (Sometimes adding it is what God wants), and you will have a choice to do as they suggest or not, even though the moment before you did not already want to change.

Answer 4

Ok, here we go. Desire is not the only thing that motivates people, pain and pleasure both motivate people. The will to avoid pain is sometimes stronger than the need for pleasure. Now, if we want to truly examine the existence of free will in the christian religion we have to look at all the possibilities. If God truly knows and has forgiven all sin then predestination is a fact, so free will is therefor an illusion. I'd also like to point out that according to the bible free will was not a gift from God but the result of eating the forbidden fruit. God said to eat of the fruit is death, the serpent said eating the fruit will not kill you but will open your eyes, you will be like God and know the difference between good and evil. Do I even need to point out what happened when they ate of the fruit? Without knowledge of good and evil there can be no free will. Adam and Eve were exiled from the garden "lest they eat of the fruit again and be like us and live forever." So there you have it. I can give you the facts but the choice to believe them is yours.

Answer 5

we are always in control of our life except when others are present in our life that compromise this .. then we have another choice .. we keep them in our life ( because we may love them or feel attached to them ) or we can let them go because their presence in our life limits our free will ... a very tough decision but the choice is there all the same

The Human Will - We ALWAYS choose what we want most at any given moment. If we have competing desires, the strongest desires at that moment will win.

i find this quite contradictory .. we choose what we want most ? isn't that free will ? then where would the competing desire come from ? morals .. obligations ... there is still choice .. you choose to do the right thing or wrong thing in any given situation

what is difficult is separating our heart from our heads .. doing the right thing isn't always the easiest thing because as humans who care about others , doing what may hurt someone else is incredibly difficult .. but sometimes tough love is needed at times and walking away is best all round

Answer 6

1. No we don't. There's a little thing called self-discipline that helps us to control desire. Pity the adults around you didn't teach you that from early childhood.

2. Other than biological NEEDS, you do too establish your desires. YOU decide whether to listen to that commercial and purchase that item you cannot really afford. YOU decide not to respond to a plea for assistance from a charity. YOU may also decide to change your mind at any moment and not purchase the item or give money to that charity.

I suspect that your thoughts on this and probably many other subjects are chaotic. If there's a community college in your area, look 'em up. See if they have a course in Symbolic Logic, otherwise known as "How to Think 101". If they do, TAKE IT! It'll help.

Answer 7

This is a very hard question, and I'm sure you will get a wide variety of answers on it.

If, as some people think, everything that happens to us in life is predetermined, I guess we do not have free-will. Some of us will mend our ways, others will not--it's been determined.

If, as other people think, that our choices in life make us who we are (and that nothing is predetermined), free-will would be a real biggie in how we turn out, and what happens to us.

Some people believe that we can change, others do not. I, at this point, am not sure. Possibly a bit of each???

Answer 8

It depends on your point of view.

Free will is something that God has given us, but you need to realize that it has its limitations.

Christianity teaches that our free will is so powerful that it can supersede the will of God. This is simple nonsense. God loves us too much to ever allow this to happen.

Our free will is constrained by the choices God makes available to us. That is all of the possible choices that are available to us, lead eventually to the exact same outcome. Some take us in more circuitous pathways but all of the possible choices eventually lead us back home to God.

So the answer is actually yes and no. We do have free will but it is constrained by the choices God allows for us to pick from. God simply loves us too much to allow us any choices that would allow us to become permanently lost to Him.

Many religions teach that this is not the case, that we can become forever lost due to our choices. This is a simple lack of faith in Gods love for us. A simple misunderstanding No more no less.

Answer 9

If free will was just an illusion, we might all be robotic creatures made for God's own whims...arbitrary...and I don't think that God is like that.
For any healthy relationship, free will has to be the main part of the relationship, otherwise it can become manipulation or controlling. I believe that scripture points to Free Will, yet God's sovereignty and God knows everything we do, but he is not like a puppet master taking away our choices. He is waiting for us to ask him to help us and for us to pursue that relationship with us that he first pursued. (Mercy, and love will "pursue" me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.)

Answer 10

It's all predicated on where your heart truely is. A person can either submit to the will of God or not. If a person's heart is hardenedto God and will not change, God will still use them for a good purpose in some way in order to bless another.