Some Q's for Christians part deux?

Question

Alright I had a good time reading the responses from the first one. Some were good but I had the ability to counter most in my mind. Most were requiring faith which I feel there is no reason to have, I was a Christian once, my parents are Christians, and many of my best friends, but I had too many unanswerable questions (by scientific means that is). I want to apologize as I did not mean to sound like I was trying to belittle anyone with the last set. Now, ONWARD!

1. What is a spirit?

2. What proof is there to having one?

3. How does Heaven exist as a spirit world?

4. (this one pains me) How can you believe that a devout Jew or Muslim goes to hell even if they have sinned as much as a devout Christian? Obviously the Bible says except Jesus but good faithful people are good faithful people.

5. Why doesn't God keep something physically touchable on earth to prove his existence? Maybe multiple or constant sons.

More than "it's called faith" are good answers. Go to town.

Answer 1

again with the hoops ?
Definition: The Hebrew word ru´ach and the Greek pneu´ma, which are often translated “spirit,” have a number of meanings. All of them refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. The Hebrew and Greek words are used with reference to (1) wind, (2) the active life-force in earthly creatures, (3) the impelling force that issues from a person’s figurative heart and that causes him to say and do things in a certain way, (4) inspired utterances originating with an invisible source, (5) spirit persons, and (6) God’s active force, or holy spirit. Several of these usages are here discussed in relation to topics that may arise in the field ministry.

Answer 2

Ok, I've read good answers for #1 and #2 here, so I will attempt to answer #4 as you seem to be most concerned about it. Firstly, your focus is wrong. The Bible states in the old & new testaments that there are no good people (Psalm 14, Isaiah 64:6, Job 15:14-16, Romans 3:10-12, 3:23, etc). It doesn't matter how sincere you are, if you are sincerely wrong, then you are still wrong. The focus is not, cannot, be what a man has done or can do (Ephesians 2:8,9), but what God can and does do. In a spiritual sense, there is no such thing as a "good man" (Matthew 19:17), therefore the presence of one sin negates every "good work" possibly commited by a person. God is just and holy and anyone who wishes to be in His presence needs to be also (Leviticus 11:44,45, 1 Peter 1:15,16). This may seem compassionless, and nit-picky, and it is! You must first get past the idea of moral relativism and realize that there are absolutes that govern the universe. You cannot "outweigh" sin with "good works" because one sin is heavier that all the "good works" of man combined. The Bible says that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump (1 Corinthians 5:6,7). If you want compassion, look to Jesus, and enter mercy (withholding judgement) and grace (imparting righteousness). Judaism and the Muslim faith both reject Jesus as the Savior, Messiah, Propitiation, Sacrifice, Advocate, Redeemer, etc that is needed to clean, purge, and down-right obliterate all of our sins. Therefore neither one can lead someone to the one thing that causes a person to be holy enough to be in the presence of God.

I recommend that you read the book of Romans, especially 1:16-2:16, and you will find your answer to both #4 and #5.

Answer 3

1. My personal definition is "The invisible essence of a conscous being". There is no official definition that I know of. But I'm open to new ones.

2. I've heard tales of people being weighed while on their death bed. After dieing a person supposidly would lose several ounces/pounds. But such stories are really unverified and like most other tenets of religion a soul is just an article of faith.

3. How does Heaven exist as a spirit world? Well one could say that it exists as a spirit world simple because its a place spirits reside. Surely as a scientific person, you find the theory of alternate realities reasonable, if not plausible. If there are truely and infinite amount of parallel realities, why can't one of those simple be a universe populated by "spirit beings"? Is there anything that says there can't be?

4. Yes, strict christian docterine doesn't allow for jews or muslims to enter heaven. But even the most strict, but knowledgable interpretations, does not confine a rightous devout person to the same punishment as an unrepentant sinner. Much rather a jew or muslim would enter a limbo or paradise state without the existence of God as apposed to Heaven which is a paradise because of the proximity to God. I very much like any idea similar to "Dante's Inferno" where good non-believers are treated very well in the "pre-circles" (Inside the gates, but before the first circle) of Hell. Thats just the strict interpretations.
I personally believe that religion is like a cramped car. Everyone is going to the same place, its just some people are riding in the trunk.

5. God used to keep something touchable on Earth. Namely the Ark of the Covenent. It was the symbol of God's power on Earth. But you have to remember that ANY item would be stolen/lost/destroyed given enough time. Plus, different religions would not recognize any one relic even if it spewed lightning and told you winning lottery numbers every week. You do bring up a good point about a "line of sons". Why not have family of rulers of some sort. My answer to this is: He does. How about the Pope? Or the Dali Llama? Sure, they are not blood related to God, but direct appointment is surely good enough. Additionally, any dynasty of human people could be overthrow or tainted in some way and it wouldn't look good for an omniscient being to be associated with the people he is condeming.

Thats just my two cents. If you liked them, or want to critisize, feel free. I'm always open to new idea. [e-mail]

Answer 4

I think I'll try number 3. I was told that there are three heavens, the heavens above us, the second heaven where powers and principalities war against us, and the third heaven where God is.
As far as a spirit world. We can not fly down here because of the atmosphere. But we think it strange when we hear of angels flying. It is only earth's atmosphere that keeps us on the ground. In the third heaven I believe that it is as natural to fly as it is not to here. Heaven I've been told is a place where our spiritual bodies go. This body we have now is suitable for life on earth.
I could be right or wrong. It doesn't matter. We don't have all the answers.
On number 4. Jesus said "why do you call Me good, only God is good." He was saying that by calling Me good, you are acknowledging that I am God. I don't know if Jews or Muslims or Hindu's go to heaven but I know that God is just and I know that He loves us. All I can do is trust Him.

On number 5, I would say that He did send someone touchable, Jesus. Jesus is still with us. He is spiritually touchable. If we could see God and Jesus and God's Spirit there would be no need to make a choice to trust Him. I decided to believe that Jesus is everything I ever hoped He could be and once I made that leap of faith, my faith has grown and grown till I can feel His presence in the room. I no longer doubt Him.

Answer 5

I'm not really a Christian, but I find it to be good practice in belief and logical argumentation to "philosophize" in His favor.

And yes, I capitalized "His." Sue me.

1). My definition of "spirit" is actually an estranged mix of previous statements of definitions and etc. By "spirit," I mean a vital principle or force within that animates living things and allows said living thing to perceive clear and distinct ideas based on impressions from outside forces or beliefs caused by inherent understanding or a priori and a posteriori knowledge (that which most humans severely lack).

2). The proof to having a soul lies in your ability to be animated (i.e. moving about all over the joint), and you're ability to have clear and distinct ideas based on what you have experienced existentially or based on any previous or already-grasped knowledge within your mind.

3). Given the above definitions, Heaven's existence as a spirit world would come from the notion that your spirit, present in your physical body as it may seem, is itself a separate existence that can be present at some time (most likely in death or in a condition when the body cannot operate even with a soul) within that world, as it can still be perceived by a spiritual object. To be honest, Sir George Berkeley could answer that better than me; he believes all matter is that of the mind, and therefore all things are spiritual anyway.

4). A question that skews a bit from what I was arguing, but I'll take a whack at it. Really, it's a trick question, in a way. A devout Jew or Muslim would go to hell even if they have sinned as much as the devout Christian because they were not praying to the right God. Sure, they were good faithful people but good faithful people to whom? Certainly not God! And how were they faithful? Certainly not God's way!

Honestly, I don't believe this at all. We have no reason to believe that Jews and Muslims who are faithful go to hell, because we have no evidence to demonstrate in any way that they will.

5). This is best answered by a Futurama episode in where God says that He does not make himself well known because there are so many asking so much. There would be contradictions abound (two identical men pray for the same one object, who gets it?). If He became physically touchable on Earth, then people would demand their miracles be met, as there is someone who can do that. Thus, to avoid full reliability on Him, He uses a light touch.

Constant sons? I don't think so, for the very reason stated above. Multiple sons? That's confusing. What happens if they contradict each other? In the words of Dire Straits, "Two men say they're Jesus, one of them's gotta be wrong."

Hope this was good enough as an answer, or maybe it wasn't. Happy reading either way.

Answer 6

Hey. Check out my answers to your other questions, OK?

1. "Spirit" is a discarnate intelligence, at least as I presume you're asking the question.

2. a) There is no theoretical reason to deny the possibility of discarnate intelligence. You're probably assuming that the materialist assertion of the identity of brain function and consciousness is simply a fact. But is it? In fact, it's so problematical, both scientifically and philosophically, that most hardcore materialists end up having to *deny the reality of conscious experience* (I'm not kidding)! Get the best overview here from David Ray Griffin's book "Unsnarling the World Knot: Consciousness, Freedom, and the Mind-Body Problem."

b) There are a wide variety of paranormal phenomena which suggest the actual existence of discarnate intelligences. Is it "science" to dismiss this empirical evidence a priori just because it contradicts a materialist worldview? Look at the evidence and judge for yourself. I have to recommend another of DRG's books -- "Parapsychology, Philosophy, and Spirituality." Tough reading, but worth it. If you come at it with an open mind, it will shake you up a little.

3. I don't think I believe "Heaven" is a place. But the cosmos might well be Heaven by the time it's done. It's a work in progress, IMHO.

4. Most mainline Protestants these days believe in universal salvation, as do I. And many Christians have believed in it throughout the ages.

5. Because God is not a magician who can "zap" stuff into existence. S/he has to work with the cosmos to evoke things, respecting its integrity, its freedom, and its creativity. To me, all the beauty and truth I see in the world -- especially when I look into my childrens' eyes and contemplate the unutterable miracle of the existence of another soul with infinite depths -- is more than enough to convince me.

Answer 7

1. A spirit is the part of you that God gave to you to keep and use in your own body. It is the part of you that loves and the part of you that knows what true love really is. I also beloeve that the spirit is the part of you that dreams because it know all of your inner worries and your most secret desires.

2. Really the only proof that I can think of is that the Bible says you have one and that the Bible is written by God and that God is phisically inable to lie. I guess I know that I have one because I know what love is and I know that there is more to me truely than what is seen.

3. I don't know exactly where heaven is. No one does except for God and those who are there and those who have missed it. I do know that it is paradise and that it is the true promise land for all true followers. I also believe that it is the place where our spirits go when our bodies die.

4. I know what you mean on this one. But in the Bible it says that "no one comes unto the father but by me" by me I mean Jesus. And it is not the amount of sin that is the problem it is the belief that is. Jews and muslims do not believe that Jesus was sent from God and that he died for us. That is the problem. Not the fact that they sin. I amd a christian and I still sin. It is the fact that I believe in Jesus and know him as my personal savior that matters. It really doesn't matter how much u sin. It matters that u ask Jesus into your heart to forgive you because he is the only one who can. Let me put it this way. Pretend that I am God (I know far stretch) and pretend that your computer is Jesus and you are the sinner. Ok if you didn't have your computer how would you and I be able to communicate?? We wouldn't right?? The computer acts as a go-between right?? Well Jesus is our go between for you and God and without Jesus you can not get to God or communicate with Him. It is the same with the Jews and Muslims. It says is the bible that it is not by works or good deeds that we are saved by..It is by the grace of God through Jesus that saves us. They can be good people all they want but it is not good enough to get into heaven by. Jesus is truely the only way. And the sad truth is that unless they believe in him as their personal savior they will not get into heaven.

5. He did send somthing. He sent Jesus. He also sent the flowers, the sunsett and the sunrise,,He made you and he made me and our parents. I know that believing can sometimes be hard but it is truely worth it. God made everything in this whole,,everything.

MY QUETION TO YOU...
What do you believe?? I want to know so email me at [e-mail]
ok?? I really want to coninue but I think that this is enough for now. I want to go deeper when it is kinda a personal conversation not just questions that everyone can answer.

Answer 8

First, I don't believe you ever were a Christian. You may have been a Catholic or a Presbyterian or whatever, but you just don't find Christ and dump him later on.
Second, all your answers, and I mean every single one of them are readily available to you. (I think you know what I am refering to.)
Thirdly, everyone goes to hell if they don't accept and follow Christ. Be you a devout Muslim, Buddhist, whatever. And friend if you are truly a Christian then you are doing everything not to sin. (That doesn't mean we don't see Romans 3:23)
Lastly, the proof that God exists is out there. Everday archaeology proves the Bible more and more factual. The proof is already out there, but unfortunately there are people like you who don't want to believe because that means you have to sacrifice and live a certain way. Oh, and like it or not, have a little faith.

Answer 9

1. Sorry, but I'm not going to tackle this one.
2. Or this one.
3. Heaven is not a spirit world. After the Rapture, we will have physical bodies, like Jesus' physical body after He was resurrected. He ate, drank, and Thomas touched Him. To say heaven is purely a spirit world is a common misconception, but not at all biblical.

4. God sees the hearts of people. If they truly want to know the truth, He will lead them to someone (or lead someone to them!) who will tell it to them. Many are sincere, but sincerely don't want to give up their beliefs, even when you show them the problems with it (like you, perhaps?). Some cling to atheism, some to Islam, some to a fake Christianity (which might be what you are seeing as your idea of "real" Christianity). But if you are sincere and want to find the real truth, God will show it to you. This is why I don't think this question is necessarily what it appears. If they are people who really want to know the true God, they will find Him. If they want to serve a god that fits their own opinions and beliefs, then that is different. God doesn't push Himself on anyone.

5. In Romans 1, we are told that everyone has something inside of them that makes them know there is a God. Look around at creation, or at a newborn's tiny fingers. How can there not be a God? There is far too much order in this universe for it to be by accident. There is obvious proof -- if you will only accept what you see.

Answer 10

I will answer 4... I do not believe a devout jew or muslism will go to hell when a devout Christian who has sinned just as much will not. All humans are sinners sadly by nature as the enter they stage in life where they lose their innocence to the world. Jews are already saved by the first covenant with Abraham and God. That was one of the reasons why Christ came into being to save the many more than just the Jews. Also Muslims are saved through the rigorous pillars of Islam for which they follow along with the Haji for which many of them take along with the sacrifices, I believe, that were made by Muhammad in order to find Allah which is just another name for God. By worshiping God/Living a life that runs parallel to holy teachings I believe anyone can be saved even if they haved sinned. Anyone who believe just because you are not Christian you are going to hell seems to forgot the opened mindness that Christ lived with and preached with his time on earth.

Answer 11

Right now, I'll answer #5. He does, with every fragrant flower you smell, each rainbow you see, each innocent newborn child, each newly born colt struggling to stand on its feet. Where I live, we were just hit by a disasterous flood; in fact they nicknamed it "Little Katrina." We've had all over the world crazy things happening. God gave us a beautiful, perfect, unspoiled earth, and we just keep on destroying it greedily, and selfishly. How many people truly care about their great-grand children 100 years down the road? We think we can control everything, and then God steps in to remind us just who is in charge. A disaster? For the first time in many years, the streets were filled with people: neighbors, volunteers from all over the US, and total strangers, all talking, getting along, helping one another, feeding one another with what little food they had, helping those stranded. Three days later, the power was turned back on. The streets, except for the cleanup crews are empty, because people are back home, watching tv, and on the computer. But for those few days it was like the '50s, something out of the Andy Griffith show. What God keeps physically touchable on earth to prove his existence is YOU!