should NCO's get busted down for not following their creed?

Question

In the last paragraph of the NCO creed it says I will earn the respect of my subordinates. NCO’s that are soldiers that disrespect NCO’s should have to deal with the consequences of their actions. But also it shows that the NCO has failed to live up to what they said they were going to do. It shows they didn’t earn the respect of their subordinates, so they shouldn’t be able to be nco’s any longer. You shouldn’t have leaders people don’t respect. They can’t be effective as a leader. It breaks down unit cohesion and good order and discipline. It makes all the other leaders look bad. It is not in the best interest of anyone, Other than the person who failed to live by the creed they said to become a NCO.

Answer 1

Should a non-commissioned officer in the military lose rank if they fail to "earn the respect" of their subordinates?

Yes and No.

Short version:
Train the NCOs if they are coachable and willing to learn; discipline or remove them if they refuse to learn.

Long version:
The first thing I learned about leadership, was that what they taught in the military often steered fellow NCOs in the wrong direction.

NCOs would get hung on the concept of needing subordinates to be a considered a leader and then used the "leadership by title & fear of punishment" style more often, than "leadership by example". Few understood how to develop good leadership qualities (to include myself for some time) and they seemed stuck on this narrow view of what it meant. Therefore you got people fighting, challenging each other physically, not cooperating... looking back it seemed they were way off course. In the end, someone always had to "stick it" to the another to get the job done.

Now, how do you build morale and influence others to follow you with that mentality? Simple; You don't. You will instead get finger pointing, name calling, and side taking; nothing that inspires cooperation and respect.

The concept of leadership needs to start with that Marine, soldier, seaman, or airman. They need to first lead themselves and set a good example. This goes beyond just their job in the military however. It includes how you interact with people, how you address them, and if you treat them with respect.

However good leaders always recognize the need for all levels of NCOs to develop their leadership skills and learn to refine them. It simply doesn't come automatically as soon as that NCO chevron is pinned on your collar. When you get your first NCO rank, you should be 'transported' back to boot camp, leadership-wise. There is a LOT to understand and develop to "get it right" and achieve balance.

Of course, I have met many that never do. I have found that by the time they reach the higher ranks (E8 & E9) of SNCO most of the bad ones have finally been weeded out. The lower ranks (E4 & E5) almost always have a good mix of bad and good, while that mid range (E6 & E7) actually seems to have more bad than good.

Unfortunately, having them lose rank because others don't respect them isn't necessarily going to help them learn and should not be the first option tried. That's when their peers and a good mentor system should kick in, because the best way you learn good leadership skills, is to be given the opportunity to use them and learn from your mistakes. Some may need more hands-on guidance. Though finding a good mentor is probably one of the smartest things any aspiring leader could do, in or outside of the military.

However, if they simply refuse to adjust and fail to demonstrate good leadership skills, then yes, I believe they should definately be disciplined. Bad leadership examples are not what the military is about; though I think you'll find that is true in any organization.

However you should also consider the fact that any subordinate is expected to, at the very least, respect the uniform and rank of ALL non-commissioned or commissioned officers and act professionally.

Unfortunately, with that mentality, you are back to leadership by title; something any of the lower ranks will not respect nearly as much as someone with good leadership skills that sets the right example and inspires them.

Therefore, I believe leaders should be continually trained if they are coachable and willing to learn; and they should be disciplined or removed if they refuse to learn.

Answer 2

I would like to have a copy of the NCO Creed that you refer to. No NCO "creed" is officially recognized, nor is such a pledge a legally binding oath. There was no NCO creed in general use when I was an NCO during the '70s and '80s; at least I never saw one. A person can earn respect in several ways. Most of the NCOs I worked around had "earned" their respect from their friends by being drinking buddies and having families with similar associations. The best way is by leadership and inter-personal skills. The only law is that an NCO cannot abuse a subordinate. It is expected that NCOs, and officers for that matter, are granted an amount of respect simply because the UCMJ and DOD instructions rule that one does not respect the person but the uniform.

Answer 3

I just tried answering your question and canceled it out and did a bit of reseach before coming back to put my answer in print.
#1 are you in the military? If you are you sound like a rebel trying to satisfy yourself because you have a bone to pick with a single NCO.
As a retired NCO who had never heard of any NCO Creed as you mention, I did some research and only found that the Army has such a creed that it teaches in it's NCO Academy. I read that creed and the only mention of respect mentioned was in regards to respecting the officers served under, not the respect of subordinates serving under the NCO himself.
I then read the answers already given you and highly commend those who gave you not only basics but genuine down to earth comments that I would only copy and place in my answer to your question.
I suggest you go back thru the answers given to you and reread them. Those men like myself earned the stripes on their sleeves for a job well done and I salute them for those answers.

Answer 4

You are asking for ALOT. I was a Petty Officer in the Navy, and I can honestly say that you will never have the respect from ALL your subordinates. No one can please all the people all the time, you should always strive to do the best you can for the unit as a whole and treat every one the same and with respect. A good leader takes care of their troops.

Answer 5

I don't know about busting down but I'll just leave it to the other non-comms to "straighten" him out. I believe in the NCO creed and have solely believed that if it wasn't for the non-comms and the American fighting man (and woman), that the military is nothing more than a fraternity who wear the same outfit. Everything I've ever known about being a solider came from a non-comm. A first sarge and SGM. Don't **** with them. They'll make you pay!

Answer 6

the creed is not fully in compliance with the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) but if they preform in a manner that is unbecoming to a Non-commissioned Officer then they someone above them needs to educate them on the proper way to conduct themselves. NCO are the first step so they are young. They need to be taught to, so depending on the degree of the violantion they may or may not need to be busted

Answer 7

It depends - did the NCO either do or fail to do an action and thus lost this respect?

Or is this just some troop who dislikes being told what to do?

Answer 8

What I am about to write is probably going to piss you off and anyone else who reads this.I will mention no names or places or unit for my own protection.Four months we trained and this staff sergeant did not train with us.One month in another state for training in a dessert and this staff sergeant did not go with us.When we came back from the field after 4 or 5 days with no showers and little sleep this staff sergeant did not lift a finger to help us with anything.This staff sergeant had a minor injury and instead of being a man and eating the pain he milked it out for all but the last 2 weeks of training.Even after not training like the rest of us he was deployed to a war zone with us.
He was put in charge of a squad of soldiers because of his rank.He failed miserably.He was caught sleeping on duty and nothing was done while lesser ranked enlisted personnel were busted and lost rank for getting caught sleeping on duty.The chain of command had full reports about this staff sergeant so they put him in a lower ranking position with little or no responsibility.I have no respect for this staff sergeant as a soldier or a man.It is my belief that he should be dishonorably discharged
at the least.He is a disgrace to his uniform and country.
I know I am giving little detail on the situation and will be greatly criticized and accused for being one sided,but, I am not in any way in competition for a promotion with this sorry excuse for a soldier.He should be held accountable for his inability or refusal to accept his responsiblity of his rank as should the chain of command who allowed this behavior to continue and did nothing to set this man straight or at least send him home or better yet not have sent him at all to a combat zone knowing how he was.

Answer 9

Let me give you some advice that should help you to get along in this world.

"No matter who you are, where you come from, or what you do, there will always be someone who thinks you are a silly a**.
And there is nothing you can do about it."

Learn to live in this world,...it's the only one you have.

Answer 10

There is achain of comand that comes with the creed, an officer is in line for the chain of comand. should he be let out of the chain because things get rough, i dont think so he took an oath and should have to stand up to it...