What's so bad about setting up a democracy?

Question

With the media as one's only resource, it's no wonder that most of what we hear is complaints and bad news. But what about listening to our soldiers and the Iraqi people? Aren't what they're saying so much closer to the truth?

I understand where you're coming from with that, because I've heard it a million times. But since when was helping people so bad?

It didn't take the French, British, and ourselves a few days to win independence. There's a huge difference between the Iraqi people and the French before they overthrew the monarchy. It was just that - they were fighting a monarchy (opressive as it was). There are totally different circumstances.

If you're going to use that as your reasoning, then you have to be ready to say that if you're ever in need of help, no one should help you. After all, if you really want it, you'll do it on your own. Even if you really want help.

Similarly, isn't it then reasonable to say that the poor should help themselves? Why are there so many people crying out about poverty in America, who are so quick to say the Iraqi people should help themselves if they really want to be free?

Dictators have no reason to welcome democracy.

It'd be one thing if we really were forcing the Iraqi people to accept democracy. No, the ones we're forcing democracy on is the people benefiting from the dictatorship.

There are already Iraqi people who are embracing democracy. I don't believe any person sitting safely at home has any right to say whether or not the Iraqis can handle a democracy.

Answer 1

...interesting...very interesting. YES!!

Answer 2

You cannot impose a democracy on people overnight, if they weren't raised to it.

The United States became a democracy under very different circumstances than the situation in Iraq today. We didn't know what we were building toward, we made it up as we went along, and the system molded and was molded by our core beliefs.

To think that we can just drop the belief systems of a first world Christian democracy onto a third world Islamic dictatorship and have everyone just know what to do is ludicrous.

Iraq will have to find its own way, regardless. If we don't allow the Iraqi people to choose their future, then, by definition, they have no democracy. And if it's left up to them to choose, today, it's not likely they would choose leadership that is particularly friendly to the nations that bombed, tortured, killed, and raped their civilians.

The situation in Iraq will take many, many years to resolve, and there's certainly no guarantee that there will be a western style democracy in place when all is said and done.

We can and should support our ground troops, who are doing all the heavy lifting in this mess, and we need to listen to and support the Iraqi people. And if the troops say they want to come home, and Iraqis reject our form of government and our offers of help, we should respect their wishes.

Answer 3

A lot of good answers here! Let me throw this out and see where it lands. We all agree I think that the war waged against us by all the terrorist groups is a very real thing. And that a good number of the governments in the middle east share their beliefs. Iran Syria,etc. But not necessarily the common people. I think Bush and co. had more then one reason in helping establish a democracy in Iraq. Radical Islam beliefs are taught almost as soon as a person is born. All their lives they hear we must destroy all jews and infidels so of course they believe this. Never seeing an alternative. Now enters the U.S. and the Iraqi people are very happy to be rid of Saddam proving that even though they wanted to be free under him they had neither the gonads or the fire power to over throw him. So Bush gives them a little help and if we can tell by the amount of people who turned out for the elections in Iraq even though they knew they could be shot at any time this new hope made them braver then even they knew, it is something that they want very much. OK, now the rest of the people in similar countries are watching very closley only time will tell if they choose freedom over living under a dictator. But at least now they have maybe a choice. So say 5 or so years from now, Habeeb wakes up says humm I can either strap a bomb to my rear end go blow myself up and maybe kill a few infidels OR I can go check out that new hottie at the Bagdad starbucks and maybe ask her out after all I am making pretty good money at the new Walmart.... so starting a democracy in Iraq can be called a bit selfish on our part but it sure gives these people a choice for a better way of life too...and the more that choose to live free the less suicide bombers we have. Make any sense?

Answer 4

If people want a democracy, than they have to establish one for themselves. The very nature of democracy implies that it is what the people want. It must come from the bottom up, not the top down. Democracy is about choosing, not having something imposed. If the people of Iraq had wanted a democracy, they would have fought for this themselves, without any external help, as did the Americans, the British, and the French.

Bottom line -- we do not have the right to impose our system of gov't on any other nation. It is up to the citizens of a nation to decide how they want to be governed. That being said, we have the right as independent nations to decide who we will deal with and who we don't want to deal with - i.e. economic sanctions.

Why is the US dealing with China and South Korea? These are not democratic countries. Why not apply the same principles and invade there?

Answer 5

Gosh, where do I start? I saw one of my favorite politicians talking on CSPAN awhile back, Ron Paul, a Republican from Texas and he made a good point on this very subject. Out of the dozens attempts by modern industrialized countries to start democratic governments in lesser developing countries they were occupying, only about a half a dozen have actually taken hold as democratic countries, all the others imploded, went into civil wars of different natures, and were set back even further then before being occupied.
Perhaps this crusade of the Bush administration's would be more palatible if the preemptive invasion of this country wasn't based on poor (fabricated) intellegence. Sadly enough, the American media didn't pick up much on the story about how British officials released documents basically stating the Bush administration was looking for ties between Al Qaeda and Iraq, before the war was even mentioned. Perhaps it didn't get out there because of the corporations that own the mainstream media all were beneficiaries of this new war.
You must also take in consideration we are in a "war on terror". Now I dunno about you, but if you're trying to avoid getting stung by a wasp, is your strategy to go outside and knock around a hornet nest a good one? That is basically what we are doing, these terrorist groups have probably grown tenfold since the U.S. has occupied Iraq. Hopefully this democracy in Iraq gets up and going soon, so when America is getting attacked all the time we all have somewhere to go LOL!
In the larger picture of things, this war on terror and "reaching out" with democracy is reminiscient of all the other great empires throughout history that became preoccupied with foreign affairs and expansion of their idealism, they overextended themselves and lost their core to a new empire. Instead of reading the "Plan for a New American Century" (scary-*** Republican agenda syllabus), Bush should be reading some books on the rise and fall of the Roman or Ottoman empires! At the very very best, yes this will become a thriving democracy and trading partner for the United States. It will be surrounding by surrounded by Islamic states that abhorr the West and what it stands for. So, we'll basically have a bigger Israel, and we know how much fun that is!! Has WWIII broke out there yet?

"We'll bring Democracy to them if it kills them!"-Bill Maher on the Bush administration's democratic crusade

Answer 6

The problem is not establishing a democracy but a problem of educating people to maintain it. If the society has the maturity for democracy, then it is fine....but if they haven't, the lapse back into dictatorships or fiefdoms and subsequently conflicts. Fifty years ago, China would not have been able to sustain a democracy because the country had not congealed into a unit; however today freedoms are given as society is better equipped to handle them. Some countries torn from under a dictator founder in government and economics because no one is able to administer such a different concept. America was lucky because of our links to Europe and we were mature enough to mandate votes and how we wanted to be led, but look around the world at countries that have internal struggles because of this lack of maturity.

Answer 7

Setting up a democracy--especially one we weren't ASKED to set up is just meddling, no matter how you look at it. To risk people's lives, especially your own people, is not only murder, but also a form of moral laziness.

I think that democracy SHOULD be spread around the globe, but I don't think that we, or anyone else should be arbiters of HOW democracy is spread, when it is spread, or who gets it and who doesn't. If it's such a great thing, which I believe it is, then others will have to be drawn to it.

I look to the Cold War as an example. Ronald Reagan is credited with the collapse of Communism, at least in the Soviet Union, and I will not deny his role in that, but what no one seems to talk about is the fact that when Communism imploded, it wasn't because troops from a foreign country were sent in to "liberate" the people of Russia and other Soviet Bloc countries. People WITHIN the Soviet Union chipped away at it from the INSIDE, and no matter what Reagan or any other American leader might have done, NO single American partook in the coup that ended Communism in the surreal way that it ended. Americans weren't the ones tearing down the Berlin wall...BERLINNERS were doing that, and so the people fighting for change WITHIN their own countries are the ones who whould ultimately be given credit FOR those changes, no matter who/what the outside influences were.

Democracy, or at least Republics with democratic ideals cannot be forced on other people, even if those other people want it. If it's forced on them, or drops in their lap, it'll be easier for them to abuse it. And besides the whole existential point of something like democracy is that it SHOULD be spread, but not in ways that boil down to someone saying: "We know what's best for you, and here it is." Because no matter how many ways you slice that, it's just a VERY GENTLE, and appealing form of tyrany.

Answer 8

Are you serious? What is a democracy anyway? Would you call this country a true democracy? It seems that the people who represent me in Congress do whatever they want with my tax dollars and don't ask me my opinion about most bills that they sign into law.

Furthermore, how do you feel about our "democracy" setting up that un-American military tribunal in Guantanamo Bay? Doesn't it make your stomach churn knowing how those people are treated, and we, at the same time lecture the Chinese on human rights. It's beyond laughable. Don't those people deserve a fair trial? Isn't that the American way? Do you know how the world views us? We try and set up democracies to serve our own interests, but we can't even protect our own citizens in New Orleans. George Bush wears his faith on his sleeve, yet supports the death penalty, and this war. Is that Christian to you? I mean really. Our level of hypocrisy is beyond sad, it's pathetic and downright gross. You speak of truth, yet you can't smell b.s. even when it's all around you.

Answer 9

It's not about setting up a government, it's about meddling in National sovereignty. If the US is willing to wade into Iraq, overthrow it's government, and try to force another country's ideals on them, then who is next?

Gulf War 1, the US was defending Kuwait's sovereignty. Gulf War 2, the US was blatantly violating Iraq's sovereignty.

Of course the media is going to run the stories about people who do want the US in Iraq. While our soldiers have stories about people who are happy to see them in Iraq, they still wear body armor and padded helmets to defend against the people shooting at them and setting off IUDs.

Answer 10

Nothing wrong with setting up a democracy as long as the Americans aren't in charge.

Answer 11

I've got news for you... America is a REPUBLIC ... it is NOT a Democracy. A Democracy is government of the people, by the people and for the people... a REPUBLIC is a government of the people by a small elected group.

Think of the Pledge of Allegiance... it says "AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS"... it doesn't say "And to the DEMOCRACY for which it stands."