To: Athiests, Pagans, whatevers....?

Question

A couple of questions for you peeps:

1. Why is it that most of you feel that people should be spiritually stagnant? And when Christians try to spread good word, why do you feel like you are being "forced" into believing somthing you don't want to? Why do you use lexicon "forced" anyway? Are pagans a bunch of spiritual wimps?

2. Why do you use the "it's not very Christian-like" argument? We are all humans and are prone to failure. Are you really that short-sighted?? For that matter why don't you try to adhere to the 10 commandments? What's so bad about them?

3. Why do you distort biblical verses that you don't even know how to properly interpret to begin with??

Only answer the questions that apply to you, that is, if you believe in your answers. I would surely hope you can believe in something minimal as that! Consult your Ouija board or whatever. I am not trying to be converted and I am not trying to convert.

Quit presuming things and just answer the question. "Few" means "small number of" you fat hog.

Answer 1

There is only one part of all of your questions that may apply to me.
"For that matter why don't you try to adhere to the 10 commandments? What's so bad about them?"
First, I really don't think that I know all of them since I've never read the bible. I don't see anything wrong with most of the ones that I've heard. I have no desire to murder, lie, or cheat on my husband(is that one of them?) I love my parents deeply and am very considerate of them and help them in any way that I can. I think there is one about being greedy or something, and I agree with that too. Naturally, I cannot abide by the one that would require me to denounce my deities and put the Christian god before them. So perhaps I already adhere to half of your commandments. I am sure that I adhere to the moral standards of other religions too. I don't see that as a problem.

I don't feel forced into believing anything but I do get tired of being insulted and treated without basic respect. I actually enjoy learning about other people's religions and practices and I encourage them to do what they feel is right. I happily respect the right of others to follow the path that is right for them and I expect the same respect in return. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have also wondered why folks who supposedly do not believe in a particular religion would literally spend hours studying that religion's holy text. Golly, by the time I study my own religion I simply do not have that much time to devote to another's that I know that I don't believe in. While I have a general view of some mainstream religions, I save my intensive study time for my own religion.

Answer 2

1. Either you don't know too many non-believers or you have a misconception of what sprituality is about. Just because we've chosen not to have a religion doesn't mean we don't get any spirituality. And I do use the word "forced", because that's what some people actually do. Have you seen for instance, that most names here are Christian names? We cannot be called by practically any other names.

2. I've never used that argument, because I don't even think being a Christian is necessarily a virtue, so not being Christian-like would not be a fault. And what's so bad about the commandments? Most of them are okay, only that for a different reason. I am against killing, for instance, but not just because I was told by a god that that's wrong. On the other hand, when you start mixing that particular commandment with worshipping a deity that no one can prove, or with sexual behaviour that does nobody any harm, that's when I don't feel like adhering to the commandments any more.

3. Who does? I mean, I've seen several interpretations of the Bible, made up to prove even contradictory points, too. But don't worry about ME. I have not read the Bible, so I won't be interpreting it at all.

"Consult the Ouija"? Wow, have you formed the wrong idea about us!?

I hope you don't insult me for making comments even about points which don't "apply to me" as you put it. I've respected you. Please respect us, too. Thank you.

Answer 3

All three apply to me so I will answer all of them.

First Question: Because we feel as though you are telling us that from the of existence there was only meant to be one religion, and the facts are that has not been nor ever will be one true religion. We not spiritual wimps, it's just that you keep telling us we are going to Hell some much that we give up the argument and walk away. Some even convert to Christianity because they are told so many positive things will happen if they do (some times changing religion can be good if you let the street run both ways.), but that dose not give anyone (myself included) the right to say "my religion is right and your is wrong". If we truly have free will then the Creator will not damn us for using it in a positive way, and yet some Christians say that the Creator will do just that. Faith is personal belief in something, religion is mass belief in something; my faith is strong whether I follow your religion or not.

Question Two: I have read the Bible, in fact I converted from Christianity to Paganism. Many Christians also miss quote the Bible, or twist its words to fit their own twisted beliefs. The Ten Commandments apply only to the Christians, Jews, and Muslims; and not to Pagans. Yet many Christians try to apply them to all people every where in the world regardless of indigenous peoples beliefs. Now the first five are good standards to apply this way, the last five are not. I personally could use that argument given my situation, but I don't because it is immoral to do so from a spiritual stand point. The Creator and Gaea would have my head so to speak if I tried such a thing, so I don't try to use this argument.

Question Three: Many Chrsitians do the same thing, so why can't Pagans? Now I don't personally twist Christain scripture to fit what I personally believe, but I will use the correct scripture for the right situation (and I know very little scripture in which to quote no matter how many times I read the Bible I could not memerize it) I will quote the Bible, and if I am incorect so be it, but many thing about the Bible have changed with translation from Coptic to Latin, and from Latin to the many other languages of the world.

I personally apriciate the last part of your question, and your personal conviction in your faith. I also appriciate your open mindedness about things; most Christians are not so open minded.

Blessed Be. (That is the same as God Bless)

24 y.o. College Student

P.S. I live in Texas, and I come from a very Christian family.

Answer 4

I don't believe people should be spiritually stagnant--I like variety & diversity in my spiritual life, and encourage other people to try the same. Worshipping only one deity, in accordance with a 2,000-year-old instruction book, sounds stagnant to me.

I don't use the "not very Christian" argument. I've noticed that Christians can lie, steal, cheat on their spouses, murder people of other religions, torture and kill their own children, browbeat their subordinates at work, and be vicious rumormongers, and still be respected as "good Christians."

I'd probably have more respect for Christians if I saw more of them adhering to their 10 commandments... including that "not covet" part. (Amazing how they get more worked up over homosexuals of other religions, than their own people breaking their own commandments.)

If the Bible came with an interpretation guide, we'd stop "distorting" verses. It's not like there's an answer key that says "these verses are literal truth, and these other ones are just a metaphor," or "these ones were part of Hebrew law & you don't have to follow them today, but these other ones are for all God's chilluns and you're supposed to obey them."

(Paul says that Christians should greet each other with a "holy kiss." Wonder why that one gets dropped, but his instructions about preaching get followed?)

Answer 5

Lol! I can't stop laughing. There are "good words" in every religion. Our spirituality is not stagnant, your spirituality is stagnant because you cannot look beyond the bible. I have read the bible and I found it to be like any other famous religious book. You don't even know what Paganis/whateverism :-) is all about, how can you say Christianity is the only good word. Conservative Christians are a bunch of wimps because they are too scared to find out about other religion fearing that it might destroy their blind faith in the bible.

Answer 6

1. I don't feel that anyone should be spiritually stagnant. I believe that you should research, study, pray, meditate, etc. on a regular basis, preferably daily, to further your spiritual growth and awareness. Most Pagans I know do that. I find Christianity to be stifling, encouraging stagnance and discouraging growth.

I don't think anybody's forcing me to believe something I don't want to, I think people force me to listen to crap I've heard 5 million times before, however, and I'm forced to try to be polite in a situation it's rude to put me in in the first place. That is against my personal religious principles. If I ever do that to somebody, I hope they knock me off their porch and kick me in the face.

2. Why do you use your weakness as an excuse to behave in a manner that is in violation of your own religious tenets? It's true that I don't recycle every day, but I'm not going to whine and say the Gods fashioned me imperfectly, because they didn't. I was fashioned perfectly to my purpose, as were you. I'm going to apologize and try again. I'm not going to ask for forgiveness either. I'm going to see, I screwed up, I'll try to do better from now on. If you lie, steal, cheat on your spouse, or kill someone, there is no excuse for you. That's not about God creating you imperfectly and laying blame shows low moral character.

Why should I try to adhere to the 10 commandments? They aren't my religion. I don't even have to know what they are. Why don't you recycle? Pick up your crap instead of throwing it out your car? Why do you put nasty fertilizer on your lawn? Why do you even have a lawn? Do you have a low flow toilet? Buy organic? Until you do, don't talk to me about your 10 commandments. If you don't have to follow my religion.. it boggles my mind to think I'd have to follow yours. It doesn't hurt you any if I don't get into heaven, but you're screwing up my Goddess's very body! Your God is perfectly safe up there where nothing can touch him playing puppets. Don't return thinking I'm jealous either. I have no desire to worship anything that insists on being separate and above.

3. Who does that? I hear alot of Christians spouting mistranslated Bible verses and raving about a book that King James ordered to be made lyrically beautiful at the expense of accuracy. I personally don't resort to Bible verses unless asked specifically about one. I am a student of comparative religions, and probably know the Bible and the Torah better than the average bear. Why do you insist on maintaining your ignorance? At least most Pagans attempt to understand other religions besides their own.

Answer 7

1. i never said people should be spiritually stagnant, just that people should not believe things that there is no evidence of. why is it that it is "normal" to mock someone who says they were abducted by little green men, but if someone says they believe jesus came to take away the sins of the world they are supposed to be respected and admired? sorry, but i won't "spare the rod" on this one (to use your language)

2. "it's not very christian" doesn't mean we erroneously expect you to be perfect when you are not, it means that this belief system you have appears to have no effect upon your morality. i personally would go further and say that christians are less moral. did you vote for the more peaceful presidential candidate? did you donate money to katrina victims? do you recycle to keep god's planet clean? did you go to see "inconvenient truth" because it is a moral issue you wish to help resolve? well of course not! you may have done a few of these things, but on the average christians will be LESS interested in these things. Sojourners is a MINORITY group. most of you are more like the a.s.shole dobson or the devil himself, mr bush.

3. i grew up super religious, in the buckle of the bible belt, so i'll take your punk-azz on ANY day in bible verses! i'm just not dumb enough to believe they are true

sorry if my answers are harsh, but i'm pissed. you fukkers have almost turned this country into a warmongering, closed-minded, non-progressive-thinking nation full of idiots. it was fine when you were crazy in your own little homes, but now you have elected an idiot to be president, brought us into war with an innocent nation, trying to affect science, speaking out louder against gays, and hating immigrants more and more. you are the plague in this country.

Answer 8

I am assuming I fall into the "whatevers" category as a Hindu.

"1. Why is it that most of you feel that people should be spiritually stagnant? And when Christians try to spread good word, why do you feel like you are being "forced" into believing somthing you don't want to? Why do you use lexicon "forced" anyway? Are pagans a bunch of spiritual wimps?"

Hmmm...I don't usually use the word "forced" when a Christian talks to me about their faith unless they are, well, pushy. What I mean is when I have already told them that I am not interested and suddenly they seem offended that I am not interested in hearing what they have to continue to say and suddenly turn rude on me and start calling me names. I don't believe that people should be spiritual stagnant. In fact, I openly encourage people to seek out their spirituality and often, if they ask, will assist them in looking at religions, including Christianity. And I definately live by the words of Mahatma Gandhi, Amma, and Mother Teresa who all advocated that we should always strive to make a person of whatever faith a better believer in that faith. I don't feel "forced" to believe in anything, but I'll admit that sometimes some Christians do seem forceful in their attempts to convert. Not all Christians, in fact most are very pleasant and wonderful to talk to. You could be right, perhaps the word "forced" is too harsh a word to always use. As for Pagans being spiritual wimps, well I don't think that's true either. I know many Pagans, as well as Christians, Jews, Muslims, Baha'i, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, UUs, etc, etc, etc and all of them seem very focused on their spirituality and strong in their faith.

"2. Why do you use the "it's not very Christian-like" argument? We are all humans and are prone to failure. Are you really that short-sighted?? For that matter why don't you try to adhere to the 10 commandments? What's so bad about them?"

Argument? Well I somehow don't think this question really applies since I am not arguing against Christianity or against any religion. They are all equally valid perspectives on the Infinite God. Still, since some of my best friends are Christian I'll admit that sometimes some Christians that I have met, and some that I have seen on TV, don't seem to reflect the values that Christianity advocates. I sometimes see Jesus more in my Christian friends than in some people who claim to be Christian. I don't try to judge an entire religion based upon a few. I have met many wonderful and loving Christians that are definately outside of what most people might think Christians are like. I think sometimes perhaps the more vocal and visible Christians that are available for nonChristians aren't very good representatives of Christianity and Christians. But that is just my personal perspective based upon the numerous Christians I know and of course my Christian best friends. I know that there are many who would disagree with me.

No I am not so short sighted as to realize that people make mistakes or that sometimes they let their ego get in the way of the spiritual progress. In fact, we all err. I believe the saying I have often heard is "To err is human, to forgive is divine." I always liked that statement, but then again as a Hindu I strive to see God in everyone and to treat them as I would treat God.

I have no problems with the Ten Commandments, but I adhere to the Ten Commitments of Hinduism. I do not think the Ten Commandments are bad, they seem to provide the same spiritual guidance to Jews, Christians, and Muslims as the Ten Commitments do for Hindus.

"3. Why do you distort biblical verses that you don't even know how to properly interpret to begin with??"

If ever I do quote the Bible, I am always careful in the manner that I do. It is rare that I quote from sacred texts outside of my religious tradition, but as a former Christian missionary I am well aware that there are many interpretations of Bible verses that are dependent on the Christian denomination, sect, group, etc. The same is true in all religions I've found. And if someone does completely distort a verse in the Bible, then I would definately expect a Christian of any denomination, sect, group, etc to respectfully educate on their interpretation of the verse.

Peace be with you.

Answer 9

This question is not very Christ Like. It's really argumentative. That's no way to win them over. You sound like the Atheist attacking the Christians, and I don't like it when they do this, but it's even worse seeing this. Sorry if that bothers you but I don't think you're doing any good here. OH and a couple is two, three is a few on the questions that you asked. Just thought you might like to know.

Answer 10

I have asked all of the questions that you just asked. Especially number 2. People don't seem to get that Christianity is the only belief system that is not about being "good enough," but rather continuing through grace despite our own imperfection.