How would sacrificing your own son have anything to do with earth bound sinners?

Question

In the movie biz, this is called a deus ex machina. An event which saves everyone in the nick of time but doesn't make any sense to the plot of the story.
It is usually the sign of an author who wrote himself into a corner.
You know, how like everyone on earth was a sinner, so god was gonna have to destroy earth.....except, he couldn't have god do that, because anyone reading this story in the future would obviously know that never happened.
So, PRESTO CHANGE-O!!!!!! A son, NEVER before mentioned in the first part of the novel (the old testament) appears out of nowhere.
I hope I have done a little to shake your faith today.

he's never metioned as the son of god, only some vague redeemer who may or may not appear.

he is never alluded to in the old testament. to find reference to jesus there, you would have to read into the parables. which, in the new testament, christians are specifically told not to do. we are to take everything in the bible at face value.

Answer 1

Thta's the best you could do? What about the dinosaurs not being in the bible?

The guys that wrote the bible were hacks...

Answer 2

First of all, it's absolutely false that the Son was "never before mentioned in the first part of the novel (the Old Testament)."

In fact, Jesus' coming is predicted multiple times in the Old Testament.

Second, understanding the relevance of Jesus' sacrifice for "earth-bound sinners" requires a great deal of effort to understand Old Testament theology.

It's a long story, but it all boils down to the lamb which was sacrificed every year at the Day of Atonement by the ancient Jews -- all the sins of the people were set upon this lamb, and its sacrifice took away the sins of the world.

Jesus' sacrifice is similar -- with the only difference being that His sacrifice did not have to be repeated every year. His sacrifice was a one-time event, and it removed all sin once and for all.

Answer 3

You'd be right except for the fact that there are numerous times in the Old Testament that Jesus is alluded to or outright mentioned. It's not really a deus ex machina, because the entire thing makes perfect sense.

Even the scapegoat in the Old Testament shows that something must take the fall. You might want to do just a little research before you attempt to "shake" someone's faith with nonsense.

Answer 4

How cool that you know the term "deus ex machina" machine of the gods- I thought that was a common literary device used by ancient greek and roman playwrights but knowing it's used in the "movie biz" really validates it for me.

I guess Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides and Aristophanes HAD to have some way to write themselves out of a "corner."

Ok, here's the pitch like they'd do in the "movie biz:" A guy loves ants- but the ants have an enemy, one that's so smart he uses the guys own laws to KILL the ants-it's like the bad guy CONTROLS death.

Well, our guy figures if he turns his OWN SON into an ant that the ants will freak out and probably kill him, but this sacrifice will change the laws and foil the bad guy. An added bonus will be that this demonstration of love will set an example to ants forever.

So, the son gets killed, the bad guy loses his control over the ants and the son and father are in charge of death and life until the sequel: APOCALYPSE!!!

As for the "son NEVER before mentioned" here's a refutation, one of many listed on the link following:

Isaiah 9:6-7

"Prophesied a child would be born who would be called among other
things, Mighty God, and Everlasting Father, that is, Father of
Eternity. This also said He would rule forever over David's throne
and kingdom. Fulfilled in Jesus. Matthew 1:1,18-25 John 1:1-3,14
John 5:18 John 8:58-59 John 10:30-33 John 20:28"

http://www.trustbible.com/jesus.htm

I used that one because of it's familiarity from Handel's "Messiah" you know that poor attempt to measure up to all the great artistic works of atheists.

I'm curious when you'll be refuting the Islamic religion and why you don't include more examples of this faith in your arguments. Is it just ignorance or fear of a group of people who might not "turn the other cheek?"

As for your last sentiment, yes you have done little to shake my faith today and at least you don't overestimate yourself.

Answer 5

You have not done anything to change my faith. I LOVE YOUR LITTLE SHAKE CHARACTURE! HE'S SOOOOOO CUTE. But anyway, if the world did get destroyed it has had many many many years to recover. Back in 1991 you all the great lakes were polluted with 89% TOXINS and now they are clear as a summers day. This planet can change overnight... look at neworeleans or how a city can be resurrected in a matter of days. God sent his son not out of nowhere. If you look into the old testament they take about Christs coming and hints into the future. Also God only sent his son because we were acting like a bunch of primitive asses that he was to be are only hope and hopefully explain it in lameest terms how not to be an ***. Those that heard this message would have one more chance and others would die like god was going to do in the first place.....HOPE YOU HAVE A WONERFUL DAY SHAKE!

Answer 6

If you have a Bible, you could read it.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only - begotten Son, that those who believe in him may not perish,...

2 Peter 3:4 -12 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; at that time the heavens will pass away with great violence, and the elements will be disolved with heat, and the earth, and the works that are in it, will be burned up...

Answer 7

You have done absolutely nothing to my faith. It just shows once more how silly you guys are trying so hard to make Christians into non Christians that you come up with more and more silly questions everyday. I mean God made us, we are all His children. He loved us so much that He could not bare to send us all to hell so the only other option was to send His son to die for our sins so that we all can have a chance to be saved. And if you were a christian you would know and understand that love, not try to compare the bible to a movie or badly written book, now I know this will probably not change your mind but you won't do nothing to shake anyones faith who really loves God. Hope you find Him soon cause seems to me that you need Him more than you think. Good luck and God bless

Answer 8

First of all, deus ex machina was a device of oral tradition and literature long before the "movie biz" was ever conceived.

Secondly, the sacrifice of Christ on the cross is nothing close to resembling a deus ex machina. In fact, Jesus' death and resurrection, far from being a sudden surprise or reversal in direction, actually fulfills the Old Testament prophecies in every respect.

"In order to understand the reason for Christ's crucifixion, we must know the plan of salvation revealed from the Old Testament. Since the fall of mankind in the garden of Eden, every person has had a problem with sins they have committed. God, in contrast, is holy, which means He never has and never will commit any sin and will not stand in the presence of anyone who has sinned (3). In the Old Testament, God provided a means of eliminating sin through a blood sacrifice (4). Why did God choose to use a blood sacrifice? No one can say for certain, since none of us have the mind of God (5). However, I believe God wanted to make sure that we knew how costly sin is to Him.

God stated very explicitly that the daily sacrifice for sin, performed by the priests, would be replaced through the establishment of a new covenant (6) and foretold what He would do to satisfy His requirement for a blood sacrifice for sin (7). The sacrifice was to be done by His Servant (8), who is His Son (9), both man (descended from David) (10) and eternal God simultaneously (11). Only a sacrifice by a holy God, who is Jesus Christ, could pay the penalty for our sin. His sacrifice would be costly (12) and would require death by crucifixion (13), which would pay the penalty for our sin (14). Crucifixion is one of the most cruel and tortuous ways to die. When we think how Jesus died on the cross for us, it is to remind us of the cost of our sin, and God's love for us, in His willingness to personally die for us, so that we can commune with a holy God. God, in His mercy, has reduced the plan of salvation to simple faith (15), so that all people can be saved by believing God's promises and accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior (16)."

Answer 9

The old testament does speak of Christ. Read Isaiah. The shedding of blood in the ot with animals cleaned sin. In the NT There still had to be blood shed. A sinless man Jesus. He is God in the Flesh.

Answer 10

I always have looked at the bible as a fiction book anyway so putting it in those terms makes sense. My husband and I were in a conversation about that the other day, how Jesus died for our sins (supposedly). None if it makes any sense. No more sense than the last of a breed of Kryptonians who lands in rural Kansas using his superhuman powers to do good and save the human race from evil bad people and aliens.

Answer 11

you're right... it's not mentioned in the old testament at all... no son. then it is everywhere in the new testament. it took like what 1000 years to write the old testament... but it only took 100 years to write the new testament... way later when jesus had risin. i've read in islam, jesus was a prophet, a very respected one. he was sent to heaven and later in this life he will be returning to re-live the rest of his life and he will be the only one that will have the ability to kill the anti-christ.