Reincarnation?

Question

So, there's more and more evidence popping up that Jesus believed in "reincarnaton", and the church has edited this out of the bible. What do you think their resoning is for this? It doesn't make sense to me to omit something as wonderful as this.

Answer 1

There is a ton of information on this subject and yes there were several sizable group of Christians that believed in Reincarnation. One of them were the Cathars would not also believed in reincarnation but the feminine as well as the masculine divine. Pope Innocent the 3rd in his proclamation to weed out heresy in the church started the first Crusade within the Christian kingdom killing up to a half of a million Cathars in the 13th century for their beliefs. This was tremendous amount of people since the population back then was significantly less than it is now. It was on the level of the holocaust if not more. Also as mentioned their were gnostics in the early church who believed in reincarnation but they have their own story too. Most of the early writing on this subject were destroyed lost or forgotten but deffinately existed. The consel of Nicea rule against the idea of reincarnation. It set a precendent that infuenced the Church to proclaim certain prominient figures in history like Origen as a heretic to be eternally condemned. Nice huh?

"A prominent theologian named Origen wrote around 250 AD about the pre-existence of the soul. He taught that the soul’s very source was God and that the soul was traveling back to oneness with God via the lessons learned in multiple lives. He taught that Christ came to show us what we can become. For centuries this was the mainstream view of Christianity but 300 years later it became a huge issue and the belief was made illegal because Emperor Constantine believed it was dangerous to the Empire to believe in reincarnation.

In the sixth century A.D., Emperor Justinian and Pope Vigilius disagreed on whether or not the teachings of Origen should be condemned as heresy. The Pope supported the teaching as being consistent with the teachings of Jesus the Messiah. The Emperor was determined to eradicate the belief even though the Pope and the church believed in reincarnation. The fact that the doctrine of reincarnation had been a part of Christian theology for over 500 years did not sway the Emperor.

Origen's writings were considered heresy by important cardinals in the sixth century. Origen's teachings had been considered as profound spiritual wisdom for three centuries. Origen lived around 250 AD and wrote about the pre-existence of the soul and in reincarnation. He taught that the soul’s very source was God and that the soul’s was traveling back to oneness with God via Reincarnation.

Emperor Justinian wanted Origen’s writings and teachings to be condemned and destroyed but Pope Vigilius refused to sign a papal decree condemning Origen's teachings on reincarnation. As a result of his disobedience, the Emperor had the Pope arrested and put into jail. In 543, Justinian convoked the Fifth General Council of the Church and told the Pope he would sign whatever into doctrine whatever the council decided. On the way there, under guard, the Pope escaped to avoid being forced to condemn Origen’s writings. The Emperor commanded the council to continue despite the Pope’s refusal to attend.

There was a logical reason why the Emperor was opposed to the concept that all of mankind originally came from God and was returing to God via the cycle of birth and death. Justinian had been convinced by high ranking cardinals that it was not in the interest of the empire to allow Origen's writings to continue to be copied and distributed. A powerful group of Cardinal’s and Bishop’s explained that if every soul had once pre-existed with God, then Christ wasn’t anything special to have come from God. These Cardinals convinced the Emperor that if people realized they were the children of God they might begin to believe they no longer needed an Emperor, or to pay taxes, or to obey the Holy Church. But since they reasoned that only Christ had come from God but God made brand new souls at the time of conception and only the Holy Church could bring these souls to God. Without the protection of the Empire or the guidance of the church, all people would be doomed to be forever cut off from God in Hell. This doctrine was very acceptabloe to the Emperor. Once Justinian understood the political danger inherent in Origen’s teachings, the rest was simply an Emperor doing what was in his best interest.

The council, as instructed by the Emperor, produced fourteen new anathemas and the very first one condemned reincarnation and the concept that souls pre-existed with God.

"If anyone asserts the fabulous preexistence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema."

I could go on and on about this subject but will leave you with some Biblical support for such a teaching.

God knew Jeremiah before he was even formed in the womb. This is plain biblical speech of an individual existing before birth.
Jeremiah 1:4 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Indeed the reincarnationist can even find scriptural support for personal disincarnate preexistence. You can take the following Bible verse as proof of preexistence:

"He chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish in his sight and love." (Ephesians 1:4)

Malachi 1:2-3 and Romans 9:11-13 both state that God loved Jacob, but hated Esau even before they were born. These verses are highly suggestive of the pre-existence of Esau, a necessary tenet associated with reincarnation.

There are scriptures in the book of Job very suggestive of reincarnation.

Job 1:20-21

Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and he fell to the ground and worshipped. And he said, "Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked I shall return there. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord." Job says here that he will return to be born again in a womb indicating that he expects to reincarnate.

In Job 19 Job speaks even plainer of having flesh again after his flesh has rotted away.

Job 19:25 I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth. 26 And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God; 27 I myself will see him with my own eyes-I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!

Another Old Testament verse states:

"Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever. The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again...What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 1:4-9)

The Hebrew kabbalists interpreted this quote to mean that a generation dies and subsequently returns by the process of reincarnation.

There are many other Bible verses which are suggestive of reincarnation. One episode in particular from the healing miracles of Christ seems to point to reincarnation:

"And as he was passing by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, 'Rabbi, who has sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?" Jesus answered, 'Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents, but the works of God were to be made manifest in him.'" (John 9:1)

The disciples ask the Lord if the man himself could have committed the sin that led to his blindness. Given the fact that the man has been blind from birth, we are confronted with a provocative question. When could he have made such transgressions as to make him blind at birth? The only conceivable answer is in some prenatal state. The question as posed by the disciples explicitly presupposes prenatal existence. It will also be noted that Christ says nothing to dispel or correct the presupposition.

Also very suggestive of reincarnation is the episode where Jesus identifies John the Baptist as Elijah.

"For all the prophets and the law have prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come." (Matthew 11:13-14)

"And the disciples asked him, saying, 'Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?' But he answered them and said, 'Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand.' Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist." (Matthew 17:10-13)

As for the John the Baptist-Elijah episode, there can be little question as to its purpose. By identifying the Baptist as Elijah, Jesus is identifying himself as the Messiah. Throughout the gospel narrative there are explicit references to the signs that will precede the Messiah. "Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord." (Malachi 4:5)

This is one of the many messianic promises of the Old Testament. One of the signs that the true Messiah has come, according to this passage from Malachi, is that he be preceded by a forerunner, by Elijah.

Although the Bible also contains other reincarnational passages, these Elijah-John passages constitute clear proof of reincarnation:

1. The Old Testament prophesied that Elijah himself (not someone "like" him or someone "similar" to him, but Elijah himself) would return before the advent of the Messiah.

2. Jesus declared that John the Baptist was Elijah who had returned, stating bluntly "Elijah has come".

Now, based on these passages alone, either (A) or (B) must be true:

(A) John the Baptist was Elijah himself, meaning that Elijah had reincarnated. If this is true, then reincarnation must belong in Christian theology, and the West's entire doctrinal interpretation of "Life After Death" in general, and the "Last Day Resurrection" in particular, must be radically revised, or...

(B) John the Baptist was not Elijah himself, meaning that Elijah himself had not returned. If this is so, then either:

(1) The Old Testament prophecy about Elijah returning before the Messiah failed to come to pass (meaning that Biblical prophecy is fallible), OR

(2) Jesus was not the Messiah.

Basically, it comes down to this simple question: What do you want to believe? One of the following A, B, or C, must logically be true:

A. Reincarnation is true, or

B. Jesus was not the Messiah, or

C. The prophecies of the Bible are unreliable.

As surely as two and two make four, one of the above must be true. At any rate, the passage in which Jesus says in no uncertain terms that John was Elijah is "overt" and direct:

"But I tell you, Elijah has come." (Mark 9:13)

The following verse is used to refute the John the Baptist/Elijah reincarnation connection. The Bible tells us that John the Baptist possessed,

"... the spirit and power of Elijah." (Luke 1:17)

Those who refute this reincarnation connection say that John the Baptist merely came in the spirit and power of Elijah. However, this is a perfect description of reincarnation: the spirit and power. This is reincarnation - the reincarnation of the spirit. The Bible itself states that John the Baptist possessed the spirit that had previously lived in, and as, the man Elijah - not his physical being and memory, but his spirit.

John carried Elijah's living spirit, but not his physical memory. And since John did not possess Elijah's physical memory, he did not possess the memories of being the man Elijah. Thus, John the Baptist denied being Elijah when asked:

They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" He answered, "No." Finally they said, "Who are you? Give us an answer to take back to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?" John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, "I am the voice of one calling in the desert, 'Make straight the way for the Lord.'" Now some Pharisees who had been sent questioned him, "Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?" "I baptize with water," John replied, "but among you stands one you do not know. He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie." (John 1:21-27)

But Jesus knew better, and said so in the plainest words possible:

"This is the one ... there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist.... And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 11:11-15).

It comes down to this: Jesus said John was Elijah, and John said he wasn't. Which of the two is to be believed - Jesus or John?

There is a prophecy in the Book of Revelation concerning the days before the second coming of Christ. Two prophets are predicted to appear at this time working the same miracles and performing the same ministries as those of Elijah and Moses.

"And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want." (Revelation 11:3-6)

While the verses in Revelation do not specifically identify the two prophets to come as Elijah and Moses, it strongly suggests that it is them. If Elijah and Moses are to "rise" again before the second coming of Christ, then it is clear they only possible way for them to do so is through reincarnation. After the death of John the Baptist, whom Jesus identified as Elijah, Elijah appears again along with Moses at the Mount of Transfiguration:

"After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus. Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters-- one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah." While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!" When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. But Jesus came and touched them. "Get up," he said. "Don't be afraid." When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus. As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead." The disciples asked him, "Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?" Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist." (Matthew 17:1-13)

The scriptures strongly suggest a connection between Elijah and Moses with the ministries of Jesus. Since Jesus already identified Elijah as appearing during his first ministry, it is not hard to conclude that Elijah will appear again at Jesus' second coming. Even the Old Testament suggests this will be the case:

"Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord." (Malachi 4:5)

There is another reference to reincarnation in the gospels; an indirect reference, yet an unmistakable one. In all three of the synoptic gospels, Jesus promised that anyone leaving their homes, wives, mothers, fathers, children, or farms to follow him would personally receive hundreds more such homes, families, and so on in the future. Jesus said:

"No one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or wife or children or land for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age - homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields ... and in the age to come, eternal life." (Mark 10:29-30)

Outside of the doctrine of reincarnation it's difficult to imagine how such a promise could be fulfilled. In one lifetime, one can only have a single set of real parents, and no one seriously proposes that each of the 70 original disciples, who actually did leave their homes and families, ever received as compensation a hundred wives, a hundred fields, and so on. Either this statement of Jesus' occurred when he was waxing so poetic as to allow a falsehood to pass his lips, or he was making a promise that only many reincarnations could fulfill. There are some who try to explain away this as being fulfilled by the church. It could be if Jesus had only promised brothers and sisters. But the promise for wives, husbands, homes and mothers cannot be explained away by the church. Christ knew that his disciples would reincarnate more than once and that because of the sacrifice made for him, their subsequent lives would be repayment for what they lost. See The Book of Revelation Teaches Reincarnation Part I. This article explains how the symbolism of white robes given to those souls in heaven awaiting the return of Christ are actually blessed lives.

In Matthew 24 Jesus makes a detailed prophecy of all of the things that must occur before his return. At the end of the prophecy he makes this promise.

Matt 24:34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. NIV

The only way this verse can be true is if the disciples and others alive at that time of Jesus are reincarnated just before his return. Otherwise he is a liar.

I also would like to point out that the Catholic Church outlawed and put to death those that preached reincarnation.

THE FIFTH ECUMENICAL COUNCIL THE SECOND COUNCIL OF CONSTANTINOPLE A.D. 553

IF anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema. "

I don't know about you folks but in my heart the only compassionate possibility is that all souls will eventually return to their maker, anything else would be cruel or pointless. Reincarnation is one of the only possibilities that create this possibility. Why would God create a world that would devoid of the best possibly end? If we can conceive of it surely God already has. I personally knew Christians who believed in reincarnation but felt they had to be quiet about it because they didn't want any flax over it. I hope there will sprout up organizations that make Christians that believe in reincarnation welcome as it is much needed. It creates much spiritual suffering to believe ones loved ones, which should include the world, will end up any where but in God's bosom.

P.S. it is necessary to make this addendum because some many have mentioned this verse. Here is a copy of an article bellow explaining this verse.

"Hebrews 9:27 is often quoted out of context as proof that the New Testament preaches against reincarnation. The verse that is quoted says: "... man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,.. KJV.
The logic expressed is that since a man only dies once that this is proof that we only incarnate physically once. The argument goes that if we reincarnate over and over then we die more than once. Since this scripture plainly says we die only once then this scripture obviously disproves reincarnation. However, this logic doesn't hold up. The New Testament teaches that more than one death is possible. In fact it teachs that the majority of mankind is in danger of a second death. Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. Why would Hebrews talk of man only dying once and in Revelation speak of man dying twice. Is this a contradiction? There is no contradiction. This is made clear when Hebrews 9:27 is read in the context of what is being taught.

The author of Hebrews 9:27 was not discussing reincarnation at all. The subject being addressed was whether or not Yeshua (Jesus) had to die more than once for the sins of mankind. One of the misconsceptions about the sacrifice Yeshua made for the sins of mankind was whether or not he had to be sacrificed over and over like the sacrifices made in the temple were every year. From the Jewish mindset, this was a legitamate concern. The Jewish law required a blood sacrifice every year for the sins of the nation. The author of Hebrews dispells the notion that Yeshua had to die more than once and this is made clear when it is read in the context of the other verses.

However, this verse isn't talking about reincarnation at all. If you read the entire Chapter of Hebrews 9 you will notice that the subject was about whether or not Christ had to be sacrificed more than once. This is made obvious when the scripture is read in context with the before and after scriptures.

Hebrews 9:19 When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep."21 In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. 23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. NIV

The author of Hebrews uses a simile here to make his point that Christ only has to die once. With the exception of individuals such has Lazurus, who died and was physically resurrected by Christ as one of the miracles he performed to prove he was the Messiah, most people only die once. Hebrews 9:27 is not about reincarnation but is part of a series of verses that are discussing something else entirely. As such, the scripture is useless in proving or disproving reincarnation."

Answer 2

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Answer 3

It's true. When my grandmother was in bible school, they said that there once was reincarnation in the church, but they threw it out because it was "ungodly." My opinion on why it was thrown out is first of all, it hinted at the old pagan religions they were throwing out. Secondly if a person could keep coming back to earth, there would be no reason for heaven, except as a launching point for the next life. It undermined some of the concepts the church was trying to focus on. Mainly, the afterlife

Answer 4

Do you mean rebirth or reincarnation? Rebirth is the just human state, reincarnation embraces the idea that we can come back as animals.

Yes, there is a group of Gnostics at Jesus's time that thought rebirth was possible.

The Catholics decided to remove the Gnostic gospels from the New Testaments. You can read them though, they are called the Nag Hammadi.

Answer 5

I don't see how the statement"It is appointed once for a man to die,then judgment". Would support any evidence that Jesus believed in reincarnation!!!His teaching definitely point the other way.

Answer 6

How can there be any evidence at all? Do you remember a past life or something? we are here one time and one time only. who would want to come back? I have heard people say that you get a bunch of chances to make things right and you don't make the same mistakes the next time around and when you finally get it right then you are done. That is a bunch of crap. Sorry- but who can really say that they have lived a past life? Not me!

Answer 7

There is no evidence that Jesus (or anybody else of that time and place) believed in reincarnation.

There are tens of thousands of early manuscripts in existence; it isn't possible that some king, pope, or council could have gotten a hold of all of them and changed them all.

If we want to live after death, it won't be on earth (Hebrews 9:27).

Answer 8

I agree. I believe it to be my Fact of existance. There are sites you can go to for the church's stance and why it was taken. I believe through my experiences that reincarnation is real. "We are spiritual beings having a human experience."

Answer 9

They wanted to seperate Buddhism from Christianity. If word got out that Jesus was a Buddhist, the Pope would **** a brick!!!

Answer 10

Jesus did not believe in reincarnation, he believed in resurrection. and that's the only form of rebirth shown in the scriptures,there's nothing about reincarnation

Answer 11

Sorry...haven't heard that "evidence". The Bible states once to die and then the judgement.