Which is more important to Catholics?

Question

http://www.biblereflections.com/catholics.htm gives Bible verses contradicting the Catholic faith.

So I ask in response to my previous question, which is more important: the Bible or the Church?

Answer 1

I will discuss the first scripture only.

I Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Amen. Catholics believe this totally.

Prayer is communication. There are many types of prayer. Some prayer is worship, some is thanksgiving, some is asking for oneself, some is asking for others (intercessory), some is meditation, some is contemplation, and some is even complaining.

Do you ask your family, friends, or church to pray for you. Is this mediation? No, this is a request for intercessory prayer.

Our prayer (read communication) to the saints in heaven is the same request for intercessory prayer, not worship.

Catholics and many other Christians believe in the Communion of Saints where all saints are intimately related in the Body of Christ, a family. When you die and go to heaven, you do not leave this family.

Everyone in heaven or on their way to heaven are saints. You, me, my deceased grandmother, Mary the mother of Jesus, and Mother Teresa.

As part of this family, you may ask your family and friends here on earth to pray for you. Or you may also ask the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saint Andrew, or your deceased grandmother in heaven to pray for you.

With love in Christ.

Answer 2

In Matthew 16:16-18 Jesus declares Peter to be the rock on which he shall build His Church. You are selectively quoting passages and not taking the whole scripture into context. The bible is full of contradictions if you read it in this manner, but taken as a whole it is the truth. The bible does not contradict the Catholic faith as you claim, but to answer your question, the Bible gives you the knowledge and the truth, and the Church gives you a forum in which you can practice your beliefs. Which is more important...I think they are both essential to a living faith and would not want to be without either.

Answer 3

As a Catholic I consider the Bible my authority. Religion and the church is based a lot on tradition and is man-based. The Bible is God breathed so I am going by that. For instance I personally do not believe I have to go to confession and say my sins in a closet. I can talk to God anytime.

Answer 4

To Catholics, the church is more important or tradition. If the bible says one thing and tradition says the opposite, they will go with the tradition.

Answer 5

While the Bible is a very subjective piece of work, the Church is definetly less important.

Answer 6

In my opinion, wouldn't matter at all becuase both the bible(word of gpd) and the church(body of christ)are eternal in nature therefore nullifying any objective superiority of one over the other.

Answer 7

I am proud to be a Catholic and don't fool yourselves believing by making us look like we are wrong. My answer is both. Praying to Mary? AntiChrist pope? Catholic Idols? Catholic traditions? Holy Eucharist? Faith and not works? what else? Don't imagine that you have the monoploy of faiths. I PITY YOU. Jesus has one church, one christians, one body, one christ, one baptism, one communion, one faith. which one do you disagree with?

Answer 8

that's Bible, for sure :)

Answer 9

1) In regard to prayer: John 16:23-24, Phil 4:6-7

prayer: talking to God; making request known to God

Jesus told his diciples that when they pray to go to God the Father in his name and God the Father will answer them in his name. Jesus never told them to pray to a dead saint.

The Apostle Paul told the Christians at the Church in Philipi to not worry about anything but to take their request to God in prayer with thanksgiving and the peace of God would guard their hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. No mention of taking their request to any dead saint here.

No where in the New Testament do you find prayers being offered to dead saints by John, Peter, Paul, James, Jude or the unknown writer of Hebrews.

2) In regard to repetitious praying: Matt 6:7

Jesus told the multitude not to pray repetitiously like the heathen do thinking that they will be heard for their many words. Yet the Catholics say the rosary all the time which is nothing more than repetitious praying. To go through the rosary just once you have to say the Lord's prayer, and the Hail Mary prayer over and over and over again. If that isn't repetitious praying then what is?

Muslims have their prayer beads to direct their praying too.

3) In regard to calling someone father as if he is your God: Matt 23:9

Jesus said don't call anyone your father because you have only one Father which is in Heaven. What he meant by that was don't let anyone replace God in your life like the Scribes and Pharisees were trying and wanting to do with the Jews.

The Pope (Papa/Daddy) declares himself to be God's substitute on this earth. He thinks of himself as infallible and must be obeyed in all that he says. He is not to be questioned. Here are some quotes from previous Popes:

Pope Innocent III : "He (the Pope) judges all and is judge by no one."

Pope Boniface VIII: "We declare, assert, define, and pronounce: To be subject to the Roman Pontiff is to every human creature altogether necessary for salvation."

Pope Leo XIII: "We hold upon this earth the place of Almighty God."

The Cathoilcs even refer to the Pope as "Holy Father". That is a title given only to God the Father (John 17:11). For a human to take that title for himself is blasphemy.

4) In regard to sainthood: Romans 1:7 :"...called to be saints..."

A saint is someone who lives a godly life. Believers are called to be saints while they are still alive on the earth.

In the Catholic Church you can't become a saint until many years after you die, and it can be proven that miracles were done by you and a whole bunch of other stuff.

5) In regard to becoming a child of God:John 1:12-13

(Christian - child of God)

The Word of God says that we become a child of God (a Christian) when we believe on and receive the Lord Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior. The Bible says that we cannot be born a Christian by being born to Christian parents, nor can someone else decide for us that we are going to be a Christian (like the parents who take their child to the Priest to be baptized), and nor can we decide for ourselves to become one because we think that it is a good idea. We become a Christian by the will of God. Jesus said no man can come to Him unless the Father draws him (John 14:6). If God is not dealing with you about your need to receive Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord then you can not be saved.

However, in the Catholic Church a baby becomes a child of God (a Christian) when his parents take him to the Priest to be baptized.

6) In regard to baptism: Mark 16:15-16

Jesus told His disciple to go into all the world and preach the gospel. Anyone who believes and is baptized shall be saved and anyone who believes not shall be damned.

The word baptize mean immersion. When the Catholic Priest baptizes someone he sprinkles.

7) In regard to the afterlife: Luke 16:20-31

Jesus gave a story about a rich man and a poor, sickly man named Lazarus. The rich man, a Jew, lived for himself, did not care about the needs of the less fortunate, and did not repent from his sins. The poor, sickly Lazarus was also a Jew but had placed his faith and trust in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Both died. When Lazarus died he was comforted in the arms of Father Abraham. The rich man died and went to hell where he was being tormented. There was a great separation between Lazarus and the rich man. Father Abraham said that the rich man could not come where they were and Lazarus could not go to where he was to relieve him of his torment even if he wanted to. One point of the story is that once you die where ever you end up, heaven or hell, it is forever. There is no crossing over.

The Catholics believe in a place called purgatory where they are purged from whatever sins they have not yet been forgiven for. The Church tells their members that if they give money to the Church the Priest will pray for them so that their love ones can get out of purgatory faster. Many pagan religions believe in a purgatory. The Celts are one of them.

8) In regard to the observance of the Lord's Supper: 1 Cor 11:17-26

The Apostle Paul was not one of the original apostles. He was called by Jesus to be one after Jesus rose from the dead and went back to His Father.

Paul received instructions about the Lord's supper directly from Jesus Himself (1 Cor 11:23). Jesus told Paul that we were to observe the Lord's supper in memory of what Jesus had done for us. Thus, the bread and the wine is only a symbol.

The Catholic Church teaches otherwise. The Council of Trent says that if anyone denies that the Holy Eucharist contains completely the body, blood, soul and divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ and says that it is only a sign, a figure, or a force then they were to be cursed and excommunicated. (That often led to the person being put to death.) The Vatican II Council has not changed that position.

It is obvious that the teachings of the Catholic Church violate the Word of God. Most of their practices and beliefs are based on Jewish tradition and the teachings and beliefs of pagan religions.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

fr chuck:

1) You ask "Now where does it say in your bible that they go straight to heaven???"

Answer: 2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV)

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

2) You wrote:

"**yes, Muslim, Buddist, all Christians should forget the minor docrine differences and all work together."

My response to you:

Jesus said in John 14:6 that He was the way, the truth, and the life and no man comes to the Father except through Him.

The gospel is defined by the Apostle Paul in 1 Cor 15:1-4 as being that Jesus died for our sins according to the scripture, that he was buried, and that he rose from the dead the third day according to the scripture.

The Apostle Paul told the Galatians (Gal 1:8) that if anyone, (angels included) preached a different gospel than that which was preached unto them let them be accursed.

The Apostle Paul said in 2 Cor 6:14 that we are not to be unequally yoked with nonbelievers.

Muslims teach something different about Jesus than do the Christians. They say He is not God's only begotten Son, and that He did not die on the cross for the sins of the world. The Muslims believe that someone else died on the cross with the two thieves. The Muslims deny the trinity. They say there is not God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. They say that there is only one God and is name is Allah.

Buddists don't believe in Jesus Christ as the only way to God. No other religion of the world does either.

The belief of who Jesus is and what He did for us is central to the Christian faith. It doesn't exist for all the other religions of the world. No, we can not join ourselves together with them to serve God.

3) About Catholics giving money to the Church so the Priest can pray that their love ones get out of purgatory sooner: Unfortunately, some of my family members are Catholic. When a Catholic family member dies they give money to the Church so that the Priest can pray for their deceased love one.

Also I knew a lady who gave $2000 to her nephew before she died. After she died he gave the money to the Catholic church he was a member of so the Church could pray for his Catholic Aunt.

Not done today? Oh, yes it is!

Answer 10

And as I answered to some of the points, these verses do not contradict the catholic faith, only your precieved idea of it ( which is inncorrect by reading only anti catholic hate sites)

The catholic church follows and teaches the bible, and actually has more bible verses read per Sunday from old and new test than most other churches.


Here is the flaw in all of your ideas, these are merely twisted truths from people like "chick pulbicatons" and other catholic hate groups.

We should not pray to Mary or to the "saints." Prayer is worship, and only God should be worshipped. The Bible teaches that Mary is not an acceptable mediator (intercessor) between God and man, because only Jesus can occupy that role.

*** Catholics do not pray TO mary, but ask her to intercede to Jesus ( not intercede to God) for Jesus to act. Does not the batpist church call up its members and say pray for me, are not the people who have died in service to Christ alive in heaven ( you say they are farther down) so why not ask them to pray for you also ??? Truely you have never taken time to know what Catholic is all about merely believed alot of lies


Mary needed to be saved from her sins, just like all of mankind, and she testified to that fact by calling God her Savior. Jesus was the only person ever born without a sinful nature.

Yes, Catholics belive Christ has to save Mary also, no Catholic problem there

Mary and Joseph had a normal marriage after Jesus was born. The idea that Mary retained her virginity for her whole life is false according to the Bible.

*** of course no you don't know that, no where in the bible, or any early text does it say they did. It don't say they did not either, but does not say they did ( you are assuming) shame on you

After the birth of Jesus, Mary and Joseph had children together. These were the half-brothers and sisters of Jesus.
** again you are assuming, it does not say that anywhere, shame on you again, How come you can make up stuff that is not in the bible and say it is true, ?? Even bible scholars of Protestant faiths don't agree on this one.


Some people say that the brothers of Jesus were only his cousins, but the prophesy in Psalms makes it clear that they were indeed the children of Mary.
** you know in one question here you name the brothers of Jesus, that were followers, but here the same brothers are suppose to reject him ?? can't really have it both ways. I would look up the Hebrew on that and I think you will find again it is not actually brothers, since the word used can mean any close family.

Mary's role was similar to that of all Christians who serve Christ. She was a servant. Jesus puts all of his faithful servants on an equal footing with Mary.

Bible does tell us she was "blessed above all women" guess what the bible says don't matter if it is not what you beleive


Jesus' half-brothers rejected his ministry during his life. It was his disciples who helped him carry the load of ministry during his earthly years, while family ties were not helpful.
** see note above

Repetitious praying, such as using the rosary, is denounced by Jesus as a heathen practice.
** Guess all of those Baptist, Methodist and such need to stop using the Lords Prayer, the apostles creed and the such also.
Since the Lord Prayer was only to be a guide, not an actual prayer to be said every day. All denominations have standarised prayes to help people with thier prayers. As long as we look in our heart, the worry and warning, was to merley do as the Jews did at the time and repeat prayers without meaning it.
** it would help if you studied the culture of the people during the varoius times in the bible, it would stop you from seeming so silly with these.

Tradition should never overrule the Bible, as it does in the Catholic religion.
** no not overrule but not be forgotten, dismissed or rejected because it is tradition either.

When the commandments of men are contrary to the Bible, they turn people from the truth. The Catholic church has its own set of commandments, which are mostly contrary to biblical teaching. The so called "sacrament of penance" is but one example of a rule that is entirely in conflict with biblical principles.
** I guess the bible giving Peter the power to forgive on earth or bind on earth needs to be removed from your bible, it so hurts your point on it.

Peter did not create edicts contrary to the Bible. Also, there is no mention of any papal system in the Bible.
** see note below on Peter and the Pope

A sincere religious zeal is of no value if it is not based on Bible truths.
** but rejection of tradition and many truths merely because of some past problems within the church does not mean that it is not based on the bible, in fact true zeal with the bible and tradition is a very powerful and Godly force

Only Jesus can save a sinner from hell. Sinners are saved through faith in the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, not through faith in their church
*** OK, yes, repentance, acceptance and baptism, Church is right on with that all bibical.

There is no such place as purgatory, since at death, Christians go directly into the presence of Jesus in heaven.
Now where does it say in your bible that they go straight to heaven ??? Even Jesus did not go straight to heaven, Remember he told her not to touch him yet. you look up why after he had rose.
So now is the good question, if the theft on the cross, that accepted Christ and Christ told him that he would see him tomoorow in paridise. Ok, Jesus had not been rose up yet for 3 days, so where did he see the theft from the cross.
( paridise another name for purgotory perhaps.) There is also a verse or two from the books of the bible the Protestants took out, but since you don't like catholic I am sure you don't want the rest of the bible either

Could a believer's death be precious if he wound up burning in purgatory? Of course not! All Christians are called saints in the Bible.
***Let me see, who said burning in purgatory ??? see other note on purgatory

Paul had the care of the Gentile churches, while Peter looked after the Jewish believers. Neither was a pope.
** Actually if you read the bible ( and after reading most of these you really need to read the bible, since it is obvoius you merley accept things others say without reading what the bible really says, get some good traslations, look up greek and hewbrew words learn your errors

Catholic priests are forbidden to marry. Abstinence from meat on Friday was required in the past. The Bible makes it clear where these teachings came from.
** Paul said that it was better to be single since you did not have the worries of the world, Guess you take Pauls teachings out of the bible if it disagrees iwth your desires.

Next of course only within the Roman Rite, of the Catholic Church do priests not get to marry, in all of thier other Rites
(Smaller Rites but they have several other Rites) that allow Priests to marry, and they allow priests from other churches that are married, to join the Roman Rite) Next this is not a theology, merley a current rule not based on bibical principle expect for Pauls opinoin, but on the practical needs of the church at the time the rule was made.

The continual sacrifice of the mass is contrary to the Biblical teaching of the "once for all time" sufficiency of the sacrifice of the cross.

Communion, I thiink the bible says to do this often in rememberence of me, In the beginning it was actually a full mean they did but latter because of abuse, it was changed to the bread and wine only. The traditon of this has been followed since the time of Christ

Peter (Simon) was married. Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law of a fever. The Catholic laws against marriage were never taught in the Bible.
*** It is of course not a "law" merely a rule for priests within the Roman Rite only. They have various other Rites ( not as commom in the US) that do allow priests to marry)
** and driving to church in a car was not taught in a bible either, actually even haviing a church not just meeting in a house was not trught in the bible, it doesnot make it right or wrong, merely a practice

We need to separate ourselves from false religions that do not believe or obey the Word of God.
** yes Mulsims, Buddist, all Christians should forget the minor docrine differences and all work together, sadly people like the one who wrote these lies, only to turn people away from the truth about the church does not want that (who then is the real christian ??)

There is only one Holy Father, and that is God. We are instructed never to refer to men as our spiritual father. Calling the priest or pope "father" is unbiblical and wrong.
** The verse in its context is refering to those using titles for public gain or to show thier improtance. ( against this is where knowing the culture of the time would really help as to not take these verses out of context. Also actually the church does not officially call anyone a "father" it was a practice started in the middle ages often because the same priest would baptise, marry and then baptise thier kids, also the priest was often the only one in a villiage that could read. So they were respected. And the nickname ( which is all it is) of calling them thier father came into being, But actually we could look today, at all sorts of names being used ( senator) who beleive because of position they get special rights, that is truely a violation of the bible verse as it was written.
Being a priest ( called father) has no speical bearing, no speical seating, and actually a priest ( called father) is a servant to the people. I would prefer the term rabbi myself but this nickname, stuck. Actually if anyone really has to be conserned it would also be those calling thier self "pastor" or "reverand" or even "brother" if they do so expecting some honor from the name

Redemption cannot be bought through the purchase of indulgences, by giving money for masses, by paying religious people to pray for the deceased, etc.
** no, this was a bad past practice started by greedy men, and did not last long in the overall history of the church. It is no longer done, and really has no bearing on what the church does today.
Sad how many like to throw up things you did wrong and admited it was wrong, and have been forgiven for. Sadly men like to dig for dirt if they wish to talk bad about other Christians.