You ask big questions, and lots of em!
I'd like to first say that the disagreement is about whether God exists or not. There are different terms regarding peoples' views on the existence of God:
Theist - a person who BELIEVES in a god or gods
Atheist - a person who does not believe in a god or gods
Agnostic - a person who does not KNOW if there is a god or gods
Gnostic - an old term for an ancient religion of people who claimed to have a special way of knowing god.
When viewed objectively every person is agnostic. That is, every person is the same - no person KNOWS whether there is a god or not. Of course, many theists think that they KNOW god is real, but actually it is just a very strong belief that they have, not knowledge.
The entire argument here is really between theists and atheists - people who believe in god(s) and people who don't believe in god(s). Since no one is able to know with certainty whether there is a god or not, all people are in fact agnostic (that is, they do not KNOW whether there is a god or not), although very few admit it.
All people are actually agnostic. Some people are atheist. Most people are theist. It's an interesting question: why do most people believe in something that no one knows? When you think about aliens (ETs or UFOs) most people don't believe in them, at least not fervently. Maybe a few "oddballs" do, but they are generally dismissed for believing fervently in something that they just have no way of knowing. Not so with religion, and god(s).
So the question is: what evidence is there to support a belief in god(s)? And more to the point, why do people believe, and often believe fervently, in god(s) when the available "evidence" is:
A) insufficient
B) often contradicted by science
C) often logically unsound
Here are some answers to some of your questions:
QUESTION ONE
"My opinion on the subject is how can God exist if theres no physical proof he ever existed?"
Well, perhaps we just don't have the technology to detect his existence, perhaps things do exist that we have yet to detect. Atoms have always existed, but until we had sophisticated microscopes we did not know it, and could not prove it, but some people did theorize that they existed.
QUESTION TWO
"Secondly, why are there different religions if theres 1 god, supposedly."
Why are there different countries? Well, the answer is geography, people are separated from other people, people in certain areas become one country, people in another area become another country. Likewise, if there is a god who "reveals himself" to people in one country, they may have different stories to tell than a god who reveals himself in some other far away country, but it could be the same god!
QUESTION THREE
"Third, why do people who are strong "believers" always try to force you and push you to convert to there religion?"
That is a good question, which is connected to why most people are theists and also connected to why a large number of people are fervent believers despite the lack of evidence. This could take a long time to give a thorough answer.
The primary reason that believers push their beliefs on others is because they are insecure. Another word for insecurity is fear. They are afraid of the world around them, and wish to control it as much as they can, in order to make themselves feel more secure. Actually the primary reason people believe in religions (or why they believe the beliefs they push on others) is their fear, too, and the same fear that causes them to believe what they do causes them to push their beliefs on others. People are afraid of mortality - they don't like (and very much fear) the idea that they will cease to exist, so they create complicated stories (mythologies,religions) that if they believe in it, assures them that they won't actually cease to exist - instead when they die, they will be reborn as a different type of being, in a spirit world or whatever. This is an attempt to change/control reality - of course it doesn't work, simply believing that you are not going to cease to exist won't prevent you from dying and ceasing to exist. It's very childish, but most people are introduced to religion as children, as babies. You can convince a 3 year old of just about anything... of talking bunnies that deliver eggs, of fat old men that jump down chimneys, of fairies who retrieve teeth that are no longer needed. And of course you can convince a 3 year old that god is real. If no one ever tells the 3 year old that some crazy idea he was told was actually false, then he'll just keep on believing it until adulthood.
It's the difficulty of maintaining an absurd belief that causes people to push their believes on others. If they can convince other people that their crazy belief is true, then it reaffirms it to themselves. If they tell other people their crazy belief and no one else believes them, then they think to themselves "hmm maybe this isn't true." When they use force, or the threat of force to make other people believe what they believe, it shouldn't reassure them, since they are like cheating, but it does anyway. And when they use any kind of manipulation, it should not be a reassurance of their beliefs, but it is.
QUESTION FOUR
"Forth, why in the "bible" does it support men only?"
Is suppose you mean why does it condone treating women as inferior to men? Well, my best guess is because it was written by men, and at the time women were considered, often, to be merely property, like a cow, or sheep or chicken, or house, or slave. In the same, the bible condones slavery. These were common practices at the time, and it is pretty clear proof that the bible was not written by a just and all loving god, and that it was not even influenced by such a god.
QUESTION FIVE (not really a question)
"I was watchin Pen & Tellers: Bull$hit, and they had a episode on this general topic. And i agree on a most of wat they said, if ya have seen it include too... "
I think I've seen nearly every episode of P&T's BS. I remember an episode about fundamentalists, one about signs from heaven, one about the bible, and those all have stuff in common with all of the other episodes: they show people being fools, and there are tons of different kinds of fools, who believe non-sense, just like little children... and in almost every case, on every episode, the people who believe the non-sense are insecure who don't trust themselves and want someone else to tell them what is right, what they should do, and how to live. It's very sad, as to be truly happy, one must figure out and decide these things for themselves.
QUESTION SIX
"Also, i wanted to ask that why do religious peole judge others so harshly?"
Well it's Matthew Chapter 7: "Judge not lest ye be judged." It's not uncommon for believers to ignore stuff in their own books whenever they want.
This is pretty similar to why they push beliefs on others so hard, and it is actually a method of pushing their beliefs on others. They have this desire to be in control of the people around them so they feel less insecure, and they think that by being judgmental, they can change other peoples' behavior. Which is true, if a group of people (especially a majority) are very judgmental, and get laws passed outlawing certain behaviors then it definitely changes the behavior of other people. Almost all laws exist because of people being judgmental - the fact that you have to wear clothes is because certain people say it's wrong to be nude, that it's dirty or something. The fact that you can't say certain words (like bull$hit) is because of people being judgmental, to the point where they have control over other peoples' behavior.
CLOSING COMMENTS ONE
"Just to clarify something, I am an Athiest, but In my opinion, its wrong for others to force others, or tell them to think a certain way about religions."
I agree with you, it is wrong to use force to control the thoughts, beliefs or actions of others. It is also wrong to use manipulation and deception to control the same things. In more primitive times both (force and deception) were used very extensively, today, at least in the western world, religions and believers rely more on very intricate deception and manipulation. We live in a world that is very much controlled by manipulation and deception, and to a large degree by physical force as well, although without really examining it, it doesn't seem that way. The majority of human beings (not just more than 50%, but more like over 90%) have been manipulated, essentially since birth, into believing crazy things, tall tales of the most ridiculous nature.
CLOSING COMMENTS TWO
"I am merely expressing my opinion on how i see religion works, and that i think it needs to change so, people can have a religion but not exclude people becuz they feel a different way about it."
Well what I think you are saying is needed is more tolerance in the world, especially from people who aren't tolerant! Here's a little story I like about religious tolerance:
I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said “Stop! Don’t do it!”
“Why shouldn’t I?” he said.
I said, “Well, there’s so much to live for!”
He said, “Like what?”
I said, “Well...are you religious or atheist?”
He said, “Religious.”
I said, “Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?”
He said, “Christian.”
I said, “Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
He said, “Protestant.”
I said, “Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?”
He said, “Baptist!”
I said, “Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?”
He said, “Baptist Church of God!”
I said, “Me too! Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?”
He said, “Reformed Baptist Church of God!”
I said, “Me too! Are you reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?”
He said, “Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!”
I said, “Die, heretic scum”, and pushed him off.
CLOSING COMMENTS THREE
"Also, I think religion isnt nessescerily the best thing to have been discovered by humans."
I agree. Although 90% of the people in the world are religious and thus believe religion (or at least some religion) has been good for mankind, I disagree. Religion has been used to control the majority of people. Religion is used to make people doubt themselves, second guess themselves and questions themselves rather than the people leading (aka controlling) them.
LAST COMMENT
"I am aware that there is little physical evidence that you can show me, wat would be good is if ppl can e-mail me wat personal experiances has led them to beieve wat they believe, cuz i want to understand why you believe the way u do."
I don't rely on personal experience. For one thing, people lie all the time. I mean people claim to hear voices, to see visions, to have near death experiences that supposedly are proof of god/afterlife and other religious ideas. Well, if only 1 in 1000 people makes a claim like this, then there are currently 6,000,000 people alive making claims like this. It seems like the chances of 1 in 1000 people being a ridiculous liar are pretty good. I mean when I was in school, it seemed like a good quarter of the kids told ridiculous lies that no one would believe, but they told them anyway, as if they were totally sincere. I just don't trust people that much. Also, that is not even taking into account the number of people who have had an experience and just simply misinterpreted it - like someone who thinks they are having a religious vision while they are smashed on drugs or alcohol, or hear voices or simply have a dream that seemed very real (like it really happened) for some reason when they awake.
I don't even trust my own personal experience when being scientific. Things have happened to me that don't happen very often to anyone. Just because something happened to me doesn't make it normal. I got hit by a train once. I could tell other people, hey it's ok to get hit by a train, because all it did was bounce me about 30 feet away from the tracks, but I didn't get hurt! Well, my experience might just be a little odd. Maybe most people who get hit by trains aren't so lucky, maybe some die because they fall under the train instead of impacting in such a way that they bounce far away. Maybe some land on concrete or pavement instead of in tall cushioning grass. Anyway, personal experience does not count for much, neither mine or anyone else's, when trying to prove the physical existence of something.
There are a lot of arguments in this subject to support the existence of god(s). They are all wrong. The universe is infinitely large, so odds against something (like earth supporting life) don't really matter at all. Likewise the odds of god coming into existence are exactly as unlikely as the universe coming into existence out of nothing!
If after you have read all these threads and believe some of the ideas that were presented in support of believing in god(s), you could post (or email) a list of the ones that you find hard to dispute, and I'll dispute them for you. Most are quite easy.
Thank you for your time and patience! I hope this was helpful!
2006-07-10 17:44:29
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answer #1
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answered by Anonymous
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Gonna try to answer this in order.
In my opinion, God does exist. I have evidence in my own life, the way my life has worked out, through personal experiences. That is my evidence, it works for me. I am a Christian, I believe in God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Bible and how it speaks to me.
How can God exist with no physical proof? Okay, negating the bible, it can go either way. Its an assumption, I have no proof therefore he can not be real. Can it not also work, I have no proof he does not exist, therefore he could? That question can swing in both directions, making it impossible to answer. If everything was proven, there would be no reason to have faith.
There are diffrent religions due to Man. For the sake of argument, lets just pick a religion out of a had, lets say Catholisism. WAY BACK WHEN, lets say it was the only religion ever practiced. A man, or a few men with the same ideals, decided they didnt like one practice or another, broke off and started the Methodist religion. Another guy down the line didnt like some practices, so he created Baptists. So on and so forth, until all religion is only a shred of what it once was, split and split and split by man, over and over again.
"Strong" believers, usually do it because they think they are supposed to. It is taught to them at the very core of most religions that all people should be taught, and converted, and to stop at nothing. Also, in some religions, it is taught the harder one resists, the more they want to be taught. Its all backwards, and as a believer, I dont believe it is up to me to convert anyone who doesn't want it.
There is a good reason men, in the Bible, have more power than women. Okay, first of all Man and Woman were created equal. They had no roles in the Garden, they were on an even plane. Men were given power over women, as Eve sinned first, and then coerced Adam into sinning. So, we were created equal, intended as equals, but lost our place.
My brother watched it, and thought it was great. Cant say I saw it, but I will if I have the chance.
2006-06-26 19:38:33
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answer #2
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answered by sweetie_baby 6
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is there a god?probably . so far, i cannot imagine a universe that takes out god in the equation. if there's a godless universe equation, it requires more faith to believe in it than the present theistic view of a first cause.
how can God exist if theres no physical proof he ever existed? -- the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. atheism simply doesnt win by default.
The bible doesnt count, because it was written by humans and if so why does the bible differ. between religions.---it's either the bible is true in its message or it is false. your argument against the bible is a straw man fallacy.
Secondly, why are there different religions if theres 1 god, supposedly. Each religion proposes no proof that there religion is better than any others that I have heard about.
---- the abundance of religion doesnt mean that one of them is not right. it's that illogical.
Third, why do people who are strong "believers" always try to force you and push you to convert to there religion?----i dont see the significance of the question regarding the existence of god. men, throughout history have been known to be intolerant of others, not just in religion but also in ideology.
Forth, why in the "bible" does it support men only. I mean if he created us, he would have made us more equal in the bible (if it was written by a holy being) Because there is no ultimate proof that was written by one.--- again, i do not see the significance of this question but i will humor you, perhaps this god with his infinite wisdom knows that a greater good will emerge from this. he wants women to be subject to men not for his own good but for the good of both men and women. in other words, the laws are not arbitrary, they are essential.
2006-06-26 19:50:53
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answer #3
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answered by Anonymous
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I am a Christian and I believe God exists because of experiences I've had in my life. There's been times I've been in total despair and the only thing that was able to help me through was my faith. My proof is totally based on faith. "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1. True believers are those that do not rely on sight to know that He is God.
You said that the Bible was written by humans, which is technically correct, but it is viewed by Christians to be the divinely inspired text of God. He used humans (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc.) as tools to write his Word.
"Why do people who are strong "believers" always try to force you and push you to convert to there religion?" The is the thing that upsets me the most. We're not in the Dark Ages anymore, noone should be forced against their will to join any religion (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etc). That's where most Christians go wrong. This is something that I don't agree with, and feel that it shouldn't be present in my faith.
"Why in the "bible" does it support men only." It really doesn't. Jesus has female disciples. Paul treated women with respect when others wouldn't. Many of your views probably come from Orthodox Catholicism or other hardcore Christian sects. God said women are to stand behind their men, not hide.
Hope this answers your questions somewhat. I am certainly no expert in Christianity, just trying to help =).
2006-06-26 20:27:16
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answer #4
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answered by linsilou 2
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This is quite a long and personal question - it will be different for everyone, since everyone is an individual. I will try to spark some points for thought, however..
The concept of an all-powerful, ever-present, intelligent entity of some sort (God, The Great Spirit, The Dao) is common throughout many of the world's religions. In fact, there are far more believers 'in something' out there (even Pantheists, who believe there is a 'god of the trees, 'god of the sky', etc), than non-believers. This leads to the question: How can you possibly NOT believe?
The main idea behind a belief-system is the act of Faith. Placing your Faith in something, in light of either evidence, non-evidence or even contradictory evidence. You may say you are not 'religious', but you are certainly a person 'of faith'. You learn in school that when something exists, you 'must accept' that it is "One". If another exists, you must accept, purely based on what someone tells you, that it is another "One". Together, they somehow, miraculously form into the conceptual "Two". Why the transformation? Why can we simply not have many "Ones"? Did you ask these things of your Grade One Math Teacher?
No. You accepted blindly what they told you. You placed Faith in the numbers and that they would 'magikly' turn to others when certain conditions arose. That allows you to place them into order, formulas, and then base theories upon theories, to somehow 'make sense' of this world... Quite a bit of Faith you must have!
I like to use the example of Math to show the concept of Faith.
No matter what doctrine you may personally adopt (and no religion permits forcing it upon another - you can't truly 'force' anyone to do anything anyway, can you?), there is the act of Faith, that is, the devotion of self. The acceptance of what is beyond our limited sight.
The exercising of Faith must be a committal act that is not forced upon you. What I mean by this is, suppose you have a special someone that you wish to 'love you'. Would you rather give them a potion of Instant Love, or would you rather they come to love you (perhaps over time) honestly? Truly? Which is real? The potion solution would no doubt soon feel 'empty' because it is not a real and honest gift from the person.
I believe this is why God (in the form that you believe in, it is not my place to judge (especially when I am merely human and do not even know right from wrong)) does not 'force' people to come to Him. What is the point? It would not be 'real' and merely an expression of a power that needs no exercising. What is real would be allowing that person to make their own choice, and perhaps eventually, commit to loving you with all of their being - wouldn't that be far more beautiful?
I realize I am not answering your other facets of the question directly, but I merely wish to make some 'points to ponder' that may help you in your spiritual journey..
Learn as much as you can about as many religions as you can, and you will soon be able to make your own decisions.
(As for the 'oppression of Women' in the Bible, it was written in a time of Paternality. A time when Men were considered to be 'more important' and would it not make sense then, to not appear as a Woman to preach to everyone? Who would listen in such a time? If the world were run by women at that time,Jesus would have been female. This would not have negated any doctrine - as the purpose of the Christ would have been the same - to tell the Truth, and to be the ultimate sacrifice, for which there need be no more afterward, to be forgiven (put down the knife and let the sheep go now, hehe)..
2006-07-10 19:05:48
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answer #5
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answered by Shad 2
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I'm not sure which Penn and Teller episode you're referring to, but I'm guessing it's the Bible one.
No, god does not exist as some objective reality. My evidence is the definitions of the words "god" and "exist". God is rarely defined in a comprehensible way. To the extent he is, there is no evidence of him - nor even any theoretically possible evidence - which by the definition of the word "exist", means he does not exist.
That said, it's fair to ask if there is some intelligent being out there somewhere that is in some sense responsible for the existence of the universe. The answer is - there's no way to know as far as we can tell, and so the question is irrelevant. There is no way to even determine whether or not such things are in some sense real, let alone whether or not they give a crap about what we do.
2006-06-26 19:39:20
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answer #6
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answered by lenny 7
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The Catholics put the books of the Bible together leaving out quite a few. One reason is because some of the books also supported women. Read The Gospel of Mary, The Apocolypse of Paul, The Gospel of Thomas, First Apocolypse of James, Dialogue of the Savior, Sophia of Jesus and The Gospel of Philip.
Jesus also had 7 women disciples they don't mention and the books talk about being returned to the flesh if your soul was not pure enough to enter Heaven. That to me says reincarnation. Most of these books were written by Jesus desciples so I find them more credible. I guess a belief in God is by faith alone and that depends on the person. Also check out the Dead Sea Scrolls
This is some good reading.
2006-06-26 19:46:14
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answer #7
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answered by Jade Ariana 3
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yes i do in fact believe there is a God and when you see that i capitalize it it mean 1!!not 10 or however many.and even though you see know proof it says in the bible,
Now faith is the reality of what is hoped for, the proof of what is not seen. Hebrews 11:1
2nd there are a lot of different religions because everyone wants to have an answer to life they want the key to what our purpose is and if you notice this is all included in the bible and i dont think it is a coincidence we ask these questions and they show up in the bible
3rd if these people try to say they are "strong believers" and try to show off they're faith like they are better than you they obviously arent that great of believers it also says in the bible
Likewise, you younger men, be subject to the elders.And all of you clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because
GOD RESISTS THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE! 1 Peter 5:5
Fourth when it supports men it is not being against women we belive that there can be power with women but MEN are the real leaders and thats not trying to b shovanistic or anything its just saying and you're right it was written by the hand of man but the words came from GOD!
so take this what i have said in consideration and if you need to talk to me about it more i wuld b happy to share the love of God with you
2006-07-10 12:47:57
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answer #8
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answered by phantomluvr_05 2
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Sory I haver not seen that episode at all, so I cannot comment on that part, but I can help you with finding all your answers you have posted questions to in your question here, but not all at once so I will start with the first part here and I can email you the rest if you email me, of course!
When you look at a beautiful building, have you ever wondered who the builder was? If someone told you that no one had built the building, but that it had simply come into existance by itself would you believe it?Of course not!As a Bible writer said:"Every house is constructed by someone,"Everyone knows that. Well, then, can we not accept the logical conclusion of the Bible writer:"He that constructed all things is God"?Hebrews3:4
Consider the universe with its billions of billions Yet all of them move in the heavens according to laws that keep them in perfect relation to one another.
Who has created these things?"was a question asked long ago. The answer given makes sense: "It is the one who is bringing the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls by name."(Isaiah40:26) Surely it would be foolish to think that the billions of stars just ,made themselves, and, without any direction, formed the great star systems that move with such marvelous order!(Psalm14:1)
This highly organised universe could not have just come about by itself. An intelligent Creator with great power was needed.(Psalm19:1&2)
A businessman who was asked why he believed in God explained that in his factory it takes two days for a girl to put 17 parts of a meatchopper together.:I am merely a manufacturer of cutlery." he said.But this I do know, that you can shake the 17 parts of a meat chopper around in a washtub for the next billion years , and you'll never have a meat chopper."This universe including the many forms of life on earth, is so much more complicated than a meat chopper. If such a machine requires a skilled maker, we can be certain that an Almighty God was needed to create all things. Should not credit go to him for what he has done?(Revelation4:11: Acts14:15:Acts:17:24-26).
god is a real person!
While most people say they believe in God, many do not think of him as a real person.Is he? Well, it can be seen that where there is intelligence there is a mind.For example, we may say'Icannot make up my mind.' And we know where there is a mind there is a brain in a body of definite shape. So, then, the great mind responsible for all creation belongs to the great person, Almighty God. Although he does not have a material body, he has a spiritual one. A spirit person has a body? Yes the bible says: "If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one.(1 Corinthians15:44: John4:24),
Since God is a person with a spiritual body, he must have a place to live.The Bible tells us that the heavens are God's established place of dwelling/"(1Kings8:43) Also we are told that "Christ entered... into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us."(Hebrews9:24)Some humans will be rewarded with life in heaven with God, at which time they will receive spirit bodies. They will then see God, the Bible says, and also be like him.(1John3:2) This too shows that God is a person, and that he has a body.Yes God created us, and we are more equal than people understand, if you read the Bible you would understand that, there are no seperate rules for men and others for women all the rules from God to humans apply equally to men as well as women, it is humans who misapply them and try to use those rules to unequal things, but that does not make it acceptable to God, the Bible refers to men but that is really meaning mankind and it is including women, God is not partial only humans are!(Acts10:34)
2006-06-26 19:53:42
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answer #9
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answered by I speak Truth 6
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I am gonna jump right in to the bottom addition of this question... You say you are an atheist.... Do you know everything???
Of course you don't...
So isn't it maybe, just slightly possible that there may be a higher power out there???? Just a slight possibility of it???
If you think it is possible, then you are no longer an atheist... you are instead an agnostic.... which basically is someone who just needs more proof. by the way, that is extremely hard to do, if you question everything about the bible.
A lot of people say the bible is just a book, but yet so many people question it.
The dictionary is a book, and no one questions if it is right or not....
just a thought
2006-07-10 15:41:50
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answer #10
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answered by Anonymous
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Yes God does exist. He is very real. You want evidence, look around you at the beautiful world He made for us, that so many do not appreciate. I can promise you that you will get further in life with faith in God, than you will, with always needing proof. Faith is beliving in God without visual proof. In time God will show you amazing things that will astonish you because you had faith in Him.
The different religions are about money and control. I am a Christian with no specific religion. I do attend Chruch because God tells me that is what I have to do to worship Him and set aside one day for Him.
But start reading your KJV bible and study it everyday, and with every passing day, you will be able to understand His word more and more. The closer you are to God in your walk with Him, the more HE will teach you from his word in the bible. If a person does not believe in God, He does not have to show that person anything just because they demanded to know something.
No one can force you or push you to convert. What they are supposed to do is share God's word and lead you. you have to make the ultimate choice of either to follow God and accept His son or not to.
Women played very important rolls in the bible, but men were more focused upon because it was though their blood lines that was what God was setting up for the coming of the birth of Jesus. It's complicated if you don't understand the bible or have been to a bible study. You can't just pick up the bible and start anywhere. The old testiment was what led up to the birth, teachings, crusifixion and resurection of Jesus, for the purpose of our salvation.
2006-07-07 11:22:00
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answer #11
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answered by Carol M 5
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