Doesn't Law of entropy disprove evolution?

Question

Doesn't the 2nd Law of thermodynamics state that everything is going from order to disorder? Therefore this contradicts evolution which states that simple thing become more complex things. And does it really make you all happy to state that you are an ape anyway?

Answer 1

I sure hope you are either joking or 12 years old. The second law of thermodynamics does Not say everything goes from order to disorder. What it says is that in a closed system the total amount of entropy (disorder) tends to increase.

you can think of entropy as being like garbage, as long as you have a place to toss it, you can increase local order, of course it takes work to toss out the garbage but in our case we have the sun which does this work for us.

In the earths case it is simple physics, for every photon we receive from the sun, we radiate about 20 photons. The earth maintains a constant temperature because the wavelength of the light from the sun is much shorter (higher energy per photon) than the light ( mostly infared) given off by the earth. So for every photon that we receive from the sun the fact we give off 20 photons, provides a net gain of about 19 units of order. Think again as the 19 net photons given off as a loss of entropy.

Basically if the creationist argument were correct you could never clean your house and it would continue to get more cluttered, but we throw out the garbage, and that is what the sun allows the earth to do.

Really, Most of us learned this physics in high school. When creationists make these bogus arguments they are merely making themselves look like fools. They do not help their cause at all.

Answer 2

No, it doesn't. The second law says that in an *isolated* system, the entropy increases. This is often interpreted as saying that things become more disordered, but this is not required. For open systems, it isn't the entropy that determines whether a change is possible, but something called the free energy. For example, when water freezes, entropy decreases since the crystals of ice are more ordered than the water is. But water can spontaneously freeze if it is cold enough. What has to happen is that the energy released from the freezing water has to be enough to balance the entropy decrease.

The heat released from any living thing is plenty to counter a lot of entropy decrease. Furthermore, the sun puts a lot of energy into the earth's system, so the amount of order that *could* be created is quite large, even under the rules of the second law. In practice, evolution does not cause a large increase of order in the thermodynamic sense (in other words, in the sense of the second law). Far smaller than what would be allowed from just thermodynamic considerations.

This is one of those arguments that comes up again and again, usually from people who have absolutely no idea what the second law actually says and when it is and is not applicable. It is a very typical example of the type of distortion of science that creationists like to do.

Answer 3

No:

The Second Law of Thermodynamics

The SLOT argument is a misinterpretation of a scientific principle. First, a definition:

"The second law of thermodynamics gives a precise definition of a property called entropy. Entropy can be thought of as a measure of how close a system is to equilibrium; it can also be thought of as a measure of the disorder in the system. The law states that the entropy—that is, the disorder—of an isolated system can never decrease. Thus, when an isolated system achieves a configuration of maximum entropy, it can no longer undergo change: It has reached equilibrium." (1)

So order should not increase in a closed system.

Theists try to say that life on earth violates the second law of thermodynamics, and thus a god must exist to create the order and complexity of the world. However, the earth is not a closed system. When this is explained to theists, they will reply that the universe itself is a closed system and exhibits increasing order, and thus this is evidence for a god. I'll quote from Stenger again:

"The second law of thermodynamics requires that the entropy, or disorder, of the universe must increase or at least stay constant with time. This would seem to imply that the universe started out in a greater state of order than it has today, and so must have been designed.

However, this argument holds only for a universe of constant volume. The maximum entropy of any object is that of a black hole of the same volume. In an expanding universe, the maximum allowable entropy of the universe is continually increasing, allowing more and more room for order to form as time goes by. If we extrapolate the big bang back to the earliest definable time, the so-called "Planck time" (10^-43 second), we find that the universe started out in a condition of maximum entropy--total chaos. The universe had no order at the earliest definable instant. If there was a creator, it had nothing to create."

Here's another point to ponder: If the second law of thermodynamics is held to be inviolable by the theist, how did the creator god itself manage to avoid increasing entropy?

Answer 4

The math was done years ago, fortunately--in the sciences it doesn't change. Local decreases in disorder are allowed as long as the entropy of the overall system increases. (i.e.--it takes work to order something from disorder--and work requires an input of energy). Therefore, while entropy can decrease on this planetary body--things order--due to the energy provided by the nuclear fusion process of the sun-the overall entropy of the sun/earth system increases (the sum of the entropy changes on earth and the sun is positive, that is more disordered). Hope no one brings out the old saw about a whirlwind in a boeing factory assembling a 747 and DNA arising from the primodial goo lol. When chemicals are put together and energy applied (for those reactions which are endothermic in nature at any rate) it is a given that a chemical reaction will occur. The chemicals have no choice but to react. A whirlwind assembling a 747 is a much different animal--there is no driving force to put the pieces together. Given billions upon untold billions of chemical reactions that had to occur each and every day (again--given the energy source--it is a 100% probability that these reactions will occur) and given billions of days that these reactions occurs--the probability that self replicating chemicals will eventually occur approaches unity. Simple life is not only statsitically possible, it is probable. What happens once a simple life form evolves is the issue. A temperate unchanging environment provides no impetus for change. The fact that earth has a moon gives rise to tides and climate. Getting smacked by an asteroid, continental drift, vulcanism--have provided drastic changes in the environment. Some species could not adapt to such a change and died out, those fit to survive in the changed environment--did. Eventually in this robust and ever changing environment--nature developed intelligence as a survival skill.

Answer 5

Thermodynamics Disproves Evolution

Answer 6

Hey moron, that only applies to a CLOSED system. See that big yellow burning ball in the sky? It's called the SUN and the proximity to us makes this an OPEN system.
Google it before you ask such a retarded question next time.

Oh and TJ, grab a book. There is NO law of thermodynamics, it, like evolution and gravity are THEORIES. I've included a link to a website that will explain it to you. Hopefully the words aren't too big for you sparky...

Answer 7

OOH! I love this one...

Would you rather have evolved from something cool like an eagle, or a wolf? Well, me too, but apes are how it happened.

Organization is not the result of intelligence. It is a way for energy to stabilize. After the Big Bang plasma organized into matter, which is a lower energy state. Then the atoms organized into molecules, another drop in total energy. Then molecules of iron, for instance, cooled from molten liquid form, and bonded together in a crystaline (complex) structure to be solid iron, as the lowest energy state. Organization is not the result of intelligence. It is a way energy can exist in a stable form. The chair you're sitting on is merely an incredible product of the laws of physics.

Answer 8

That is a very good point. The Law of Thermodynamics is a proven scientific Law. The Theory of Evolution is STILL merely a Theory. Therefore, these apes like creatures who call themselves evolutionists (the apparent species which evolves from apes) can be easily disproven.

On the other hand, I have always been told that when it comes to scientific or mathematical calculations, "liars figure, and figures lie." So, in order to prove a theory of any kind, I can do what ever it takes to prove my theory, even manufacture facts and figures.

Answer 9

Not necessarily. Within chaos theory there are two types of systems, entropic and negentropic. That means either a system is spiraling down towards entropy/ disorder, or spiraling up towards higher levels of organization, negentropy. We see both types of action happening in the universe.

Answer 10

As a Distinguished Research Scientist and devout Christian I have to say you have answered your own questions with wrong answers..
I believe both, that God created the Universe and Evolution. The fundamentalists have so many arguments to this that it would make us both dizzy. Remember, the bible was written by men who did the best they could to interpret what they saw and believed. It is still the best book in the universe from which you should base your life. Jesus is lord , and God is far complex beyond the understanding of man.