Cops are fascist pigs with no right to order us around. Why?

Question

Obviously I'm being a bit provocative. And angry. But irrational? No. Legally obliged? The law has no moral authority over me. Just because it's "the government" doesn't give it any particular authority over me. It's just a big corporation of people arbitrarily making laws for others. U.S. government is inherently wrong by its very nature. The only legitimate government is one signed off on by ALL involved. I do not consent to this government; its authority over me is strictly at the point of a gun. As a human I have a right to live my life as I see fit and answer to no man so far as I am not using force on others. It's a basic libertarian doctrine. The "law" isn't sacred and police officers are the enforcers of reprehensible, evil legislation. So, am I still being irrational? It's MY life, not anybody else's. Our government, by definition, is fascist. Look up the word. Then look up natural law as it pertains to libertarianism. Then look up miniarchism.

Hey tw2251stst:
You grow up. And wake up. And realize you're a slave of the government. No one has a right to control your life. Order should be maintained by consent of all people and any government that transcends basic protection of one person from another is illegitimate, such as ours. If it wasn't expensive, I'd burn a flag in my front yard every day.

Apparently only the brainwashed are answering this question. I have no respect for police, other than what they can buy at the point of a gun. If a community of free people want to hire a security force administrated by a private, capitalist business, fine. We all know the private sector can do anything the public sector can, only better. You people are the kind of sheep the government likes.

I'm not opposing government in totality. I'm making an argument for individualism, few safety nets, personal responsibility and limited government based on voluntary taxation. If the people choose not to pay into a program, the progrom will not come to exist. If people do, it will. This will be government based on actual will of the people. Any other government is corrupt by definition. Read Lysander Spooner, David Boaz, H.L. Mencken, Adam Smith, David Friedman, etc. etc. etc. Get The Libertarian Reader, edited by Boaz; get Libertarianism, A Primer, by Boaz. Visit cato.org. Be independent. Don't be government dweebs.

You people are all lemmings, running blindly and thoughtlessly toward your own oblivion. I didn't say we don't have a lot of freedoms here but that doesn't mean I should just shut the h*** up and accept the injustices that exist. Yes, we need to protect ourselves from the wicked. But the CURRENT police state is unacceptable and you all are too brainwashed to see this. No wonder I am such a misanthrope. Why should I be loyal to a government? I'm not statist and I have no sense of patriotism. I believe in the rights of the individual, MY right to live MY life the way I see fit as long as I harm no other. A security force that intervened only to prevent one person from harming another might be fine. But not the current invasive police state in which they can stop you and demand your ID even if you're just a pedestrian. This kind of government is what the founding fathers opposed (well, some of them ... Alexander Hamilton was a real weiner.).

You people get the government you deserve. I hope you enjoy it.

External to the individual? The greater good? NO one has a right to force me to contribute to the greater good. The idea of voluntary taxes would work well because the minimal taxes involved in paying for the few programs that are actually necessary would be a pittance compared to the third or more income we are robbed of now. And what mysterious entity determines the value of these so-called external values of which you speak? A government might be fine if it would limit itself ONLY to protecting us from others. I realize minarchism is never going to happen (because of all you sheep out there), but it is doable despite all you think. Infrastructure would work fine handled privately. Capitalism is self-regulating. It's called spontaneous order. Put government functions in the private sector and quality will arise from competition. There would still be minimal government but not state. And if you choose to opt out of paying a share of taxes you simply dont get that service. Easy.

Answer 1

Wow . . . lots of government sheep have come to the defense of their fellow farm animals.

Cops are gang members, willing to protect their own whether right or wrong. Anyone who thinks otherwise either hasn't dealt with the police or is a police officer (or is related to one). The things cops get away with in the United States . . . we'd look at them in another country and call it totalitarianism run amok. But that couldn't happen here -- oh, no, of course not. We're the good ol' US of A.

Answer 2

Since you happen to live in a society, you are (whether you like it or not) obligated to abide by a social contract. This means that you sometimes have to sacrifice individual rights for the greater good. Police agencies do what they have to keep the community safe. If you have nothing to hide then there is nothing to fear.
Being the libertarian that you are you are obviously irrational AND NOT CAPABLE of seeing beyond your selfish ideas. If human nature was ideal and not nearly as greedy as it is, than I might agree with you. Until that day government will protect those who need it.
In order for society to work some form of socialism must exists. Are you going to build your own infrastructure? Your own schools? If everybody was doing their own thing it would be inefficient. Sometimes the government must protect people against themselves.

Answer 3

While I don't like connotation of fascist pigs, I get your point. You are taking capitalism and democracy to the extreme. The only problem is that society doesn't work that way.

First, the consent of all the people. If I understand you, societal limits on behavior are to be agreed upon by all people. That's not going to happen. Do we take it to a vote? Everything. Just logistically, it won't work. But there has to be a system of values that is external to the individual. Otherwise anything goes.

Second, no matter what someone is going to disagree with those limits. Yes, laws are made to control behavior. But is that so bad. What you may think is unjust, the vast majority of people may agree is just. For example, pot. Personally, I have no problem with legalizing it. But it seems other people in government see it differently. I can live with that. I can also live with the taxes I pay. The check on the laws is that we can elect the people making the laws or vote for someone else.

Third, voluntary taxation. Well, I mentioned it before, but who is going to voluntarily pay taxes, even in their own best interests.

No offense, but your system won't work. We need laws that are external from the individual, even if to a few people those laws seem unjust. Otherwise, there is not order.

You may feel that cops are fascists now, but when you need real help, they will be there to protect you, despite what you say.

My only suggestion is that form a country of one. I don't mean that as disrespect, but the very fact that people are individuals, means that no one else is going to completely agree with you. And you will never have complete satisfaction with any authority, which is necessary to protect the innocent.

Our government is far from perfect, but it is a good balance of freedom and social justice. It may go to left a bit and then to the right, but it usually finds a middle ground that people in general can agree with.

More:
While I agree there should be more private companies doing the work that the government does, increase competition, free market, more efficient, the police are not one. The people with the most money would get the best protection with private security, while the poor would have to fend for themselves. You'd essentially turn the society into a system of warlords, and polarize everyone into little sects.

The external value is simple. It's society. It's not mysterious at all. Society elects representatives. If we agree with the laws, we reelect them. If we don't, we elect someone else. What's mysterious is the notion that an individual can live without a frame of reference for behavior in society. No one individual is going to completely agree with the laws, but in order to enjoy the benefits of society you enter a social contract, as jared states. Your option is to go live by yourself, which is the only person that agrees 100%

Like I said, who is going to pay voluntary taxes, even in their best interest? People do all kinds of things that aren't in their best interest, and sometimes those decisions affect others. If you opt out, then you don't get the services. So what people are going to carry their "public service" statements? The security company comes to your door after a break-in and says we'd like to help, but you didn't pay your bill. You can't go the county recorders to verify something on your deed, because you didn't pay the "premium" check back in a month, when you are current. I'm joking, but you get the point. You take advantage of public services everyday and you don't realize it. Just getting in a car and driving. Just walking down the street. Coming to a crosswalk.

So cops are necessary. I know you just trying to get a discussion going but calling them "fascist pigs" is disturbing. In general, they are people that want to help. Simply put, the want to catch the bad guy, and protect the innocent. I know it’s rather simplistic, but that doesn't make it any less true. Sure there are overgrown little boys in the force that just want to bully, but that's the exception, not the rule.

So thanks to the Police.

Answer 4

Let's for sake of argument say that at one point the government got the agreement of every citizen to rule them. But then what? Does every baby have to agree? Or when you turn 18? But what happens to those who don't agree? Do they just get deported? You really need to think about the implications of what you are saying. Government exists, in general, because it makes lives better. If you do not like our government you can either find one you do or change it within its own system.

Edit: Your proposition is all well and good in theory, but completely impractical. Say you don't want to have police, but your neighbor does. How exactly does that work? For the neighbor to feel safe you have to be subject to the police. How can you work out this conflict of desires?

Answer 5

Well i see your point i believe you are trying to say that no one has the right to be moral police and as long as you are not harming anyone elses right to pursuit of happiness freedom, ect then you shouldnt be disturbed by the police. No wthe flip problem with that coin because ive had similar thoughts and (for the record i dont drink smoke, nor do any illegal substances of any kind.) the problem is someone who drinks at home isnt necessarily hurting anyone until he/she gets behind a wheel, now the question is do we wait for them to take someone elses right of freedom or do we preliminary step in and fix the problem before life is lost? The big cunundrum of society.

Answer 6

Bluffmike is partially correct. You have to obey the LAWFUL orders of a police officer. An officer cannot arbitrarily order someone to do something (or not do something) that is not a statutory law or something that is illegal.

(for instance, you cannot follow an officers order to run over someone else with you automobile, or an officer cannot direct you to violate the law)

Answer 7

Without the "facsist pigs" our contry would be no better than Bosnia or other 3rd world countries. The police maintain law and order and keep the populous safe. They put their lives in danger everyday just to keep people like you safe and deserve better treatment and more respect than what you are giving them.

Answer 8

Well, it seems someone's had a bad experience with the cops & is behaving irrationally...

They're doing their jobs of keeping good, law-abiding citizens safe. Sure, you'll regret being on their bad side, but you're not supposed to be there in the first place, you know?

Sheesh. Stop smoking whatever it is that's making you nuts.

Answer 9

When you use words like "fascist" and "pig" to begin your question, you are less likely to be taken seriously.

You are legally required to obey the orders of a police officer.

Answer 10

Grow up. I should not even except the 2 points for answering this question.

Answer 11

did they confiscate your herbs? that's what it sounds like. Don't worry about it. It happens to every pothead sometime or another, but it'll be fine. You'll be back tokin' in a few days.