whats the difference between believing in no god, and worshiping a false god?

Question

could i pinpoint suras in the quran like mohummad did with his needledic?

Answer 1

That's a good question and it deserves an answer.
First, believing in no God is accepting Satan and that's led you to the lake of fire.
Secondly, believing in a false God is anything by the way like objects; jobs; people; money; and the like. Remember the First Commandment. Use it as your source. If you don't believe in Jesus Christ and Our Heavenly Father you to will have a reservation to the lake of fire.

Answer 2

the first 2 of the ten Commandments provide the reply. a million. - No gods to be worshipped except the only author of Heaven and Earth. 2 - You shall no longer make for your self an idol and worship it. because the Puritan preacher Thomas Watson suggested, if the first Commandment is adversarial to worshipping a pretend god, the 2d Commandment is adversarial to worshipping the real God in a pretend way. that's why at the same time as the people of Israel worshipped the gods of the pagans round them, and likewise worshipped Yahweh, the author, they were worse than the international locations from which they were redeemed. Pagans can sometimes plead lack of knowledge. yet no longer those who're in covenant courting with the author! further, the author has had it recorded that, "the sacrifices of pagans are presented to demons, no longer to God, and that i do no longer choose you to be individuals with demons. you could't drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you could't have an element in both the Lord's table and the table of demons." (a million Corinthians 10:19-21) that is precisely what the first 2 of the ten Commandments are about. Finaly, a pretend god is a no-god. And a incorrect wish is a pretend wish, a no-wish. more desirable suitable to face as a lot because the reality the real God states, for our probability-free practices, and make effective we worship our author properly. If some thing is considerable, that is nicely worth continuing till you get it top!

Answer 3

If the bible is even remotely true, all Christians are worshiping a false God. Even if Jesus is who he claimed to be, he never claimed to be God and those who elevate him to that status are worshiping a false God.

From my viewpoint the bible is a book of mythology. But, that does not alter the myth and the myth doesn't support "Jesus is God."

And, I'm an atheist, so it doesn't matter to me one way or another

Answer 4

not sure what Quran has anything do with believing in NO GOD or False GOD and you trying to pin point.

regardless what religious book you read they all talk about not worshiping the False GOD or Not believing GOD... religion is a matter of faith and belief..
I don't think it matters who and what you quote to prove a point...

Answer 5

Christians worship a false god (JESUS is the SON of GOD, not God himself)
Mohamud was a prophet and also not a GOD.. Budda also was a prophet

Answer 6

There is One God and He is in all - All is God.
Everything of this world is false - All here is Illusion.

Answer 7

Forgive them for they know not what they do. Somebody took my name, sorry for "his" insult

Answer 8

About $1.57

Answer 9

One your brainwashed, one your not.

Answer 10

Luke 19:27 bring those that would not have me reign over them and slay them before me

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you

Deuteronomy 20:10-14

1 Samuel 15:2-4
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***.
Numbers 31:17-18 "Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."
Numbers 31:35-40 "[From the captives of war] 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.......of which the tribute for the LORD was 32 [among them were virgin girls]."



hair covering
In what would form part of a 'New Testament', St.Paul obligated the then common practice of the veil for all women: 'And every woman who prays or prophesies with her hair uncovered dishonors her hair - it is just as though her hair were shaved. If a woman does not cover her hair, she should have her hair cut off or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image of glory of God; but woman is glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.[1] For this reason and because of the angels, woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head. (I Corinthians 11:4-10)




Jesus was a fraud.

Romans 1:3 & Acts 2:30 states that the messiah must be of the line of David. In fact, it states that he must be of Davids line "in the flesh", which means he must be a direct PHYSICAL descendant of David. However, if you read the geneologies in Matthew 1, and Luke 3 you will learn that Jesus is descended from David on JOSEPHS side.

So, if Jesus was born of a virgin, and God is the father, Jesus cannot possibly be of Davids line. This invalidates the prophesy of the messiah. If the geneology listed in Matthew and Luke are correct, it invalidates the virgin birth, and we know that Jesus is NOT the son of God.

From there you start getting into even messier dilemas with the scriptures, like Deuteronomy 23:2 which says a bastard cannot attend church "unto the tenth generation". Having no father by virtue of having a virgin mother, Jesus was a bastard, and should not have been allowed in a church, let alone to be a leader in one. Furthermore, if he was the son of Joseph, he is not Gods son, and the church based on his "holy" scripture is a lie.



quantrill37
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Before engaging in an examination of Isaiah 53 itself, some preliminary issues must be considered. First is the issue of circular reasoning. Even if we interpret the chapter as the Christians do (forgetting for a minute the mistranslations and distortions of context which will be noted below), the most that could be said is this: Isaiah 53 is about someone who dies for the sins of others. People may have seen Jesus die, but did anyone see him die as an atonement for the sins of others? Of course not; this is simply the meaning which the New Testament gives to his death. Only if you already accept the New Testament teaching that his death had a non-visible, spiritual significance can you than go back to Isaiah and say, "see - the Prophet predicted what I already believe." Isaiah 53, then, is in reality no "proof" at all, but rather a contrived confirmation for someone who has already chosen Christianity.

Second (and consistent with all Jewish teaching at the time), Jesus' own disciples didn't view Isaiah 53 as a messianic prophecy. For example, after Peter identifies Jesus as the Messiah (Matt. 16:16), he is informed that Jesus will be killed (Matt. 16:21). His response: "God forbid it, lord! This shall never happen to you" (Matt. 16:22). See, also, Mk. 9:31-32; Mk. 16:10-11; Jn. 20:9. Even Jesus didn't see Isaiah 53 as crucial to his messianic claims - why else did he call the Jews children of the devil for not believing in him before the alleged resurrection (Jn. 8:39-47)? And why did he later request that God "remove this cup from me" (Mk. 14:36) - didn't he know that a "removal of the cup" would violate the gentile understanding of Isaiah 53?

And third, even if we accept the gentile Christian interpretation of Isaiah 53, where is it indicated (either in Isaiah 53 or anywhere else in our Jewish Scriptures) that you must believe in this "Messiah" to get the benefits?

CONTEXT

Since any portion of Scripture is only understood properly when viewed in the context of God's revelation as a whole, some additional study will be helpful before you "tackle" Isaiah 53.

Look at the setting in which Isaiah 53 occurs. Earlier on in Isaiah, God had predicted exile and calamity for the Jewish people. Chapter 53, however, occurs in the midst of Isaiah's "Messages of Consolation", which tell of the restoration of Israel to a position of prominence and a vindication of their status as God's chosen people. In chapter 52, for example, Israel is described as "oppressed without cause" (v.4) and "taken away" (v.5), yet God promises a brighter future ahead, one in which Israel will again prosper and be redeemed in the sight of all the nations (v.1-3, 8-12).

Chapter 54 further elaborates upon the redemption which awaits the nation of Israel. Following immediately after chapter 53's promise of a reward for God's servant in return for all of its suffering (53:10-12), chapter 54 describes an unequivocally joyous fate for the Jewish people. Speaking clearly of the Jewish people and their exalted status (even according to all Christian commentaries), chapter 54 ends as follows: "`This is the heritage of the servants of the L-rd and their vindication is from Me,' declares the L-rd."

ISAIAH 53

In the original Hebrew texts, there are no chapter divisions, and Jew and Christian alike agree that chapter 53 is actually a continuation of the prophecy which begins at 52:13. Accordingly, our analysis must begin at that verse.

52:13 "Behold, My servant will prosper." Israel in the singular is called God's servant throughout Isaiah, both explicitly (Isa. 41:8-9; 44:1-2; 45:4; 48:20; 49:3) and implicitly (Isa. 42:19-20; 43:10) - the Messiah is not. Other references to Israel as God's servant include Jer. 30:10 (note that in Jer. 30:17, the servant Israel is regarded by the nations as an outcast, forsaken by God, as in Isa. 53:4); Jer. 46:27-28; Ps. 136:22; Lk. 1:54. ALSO: Given the Christian view that Jesus is God, is God His own servant?

52:15 - 53:1 "So shall he (the servant) startle many nations, the kings will stand speechless; For that which had not been told them they shall see and that which they had not heard shall they ponder. Who would believe what we have heard?" Quite clearly, the nations and their kings will be amazed at what happens to the "servant of the L-rd," and they will say "who would believe what we have heard?". 52:15 tells us explicitly that it is the nations of the world, the gentiles, who are doing the talking in Isaiah 53. See, also, Micah 7:12-17, which speaks of the nations' astonishment when the Jewish people again blossom in the Messianic age.

53:1 "And to whom has the arm of the L-rd been revealed?" In Isaiah, and throughout our Scriptures, God's "arm" refers to the physical redemption of the Jewish people from the oppression of other nations (see, e.g., Isa. 52:8-12; Isa. 63:12; Deut. 4:34; Deut. 7:19; Ps. 44:3).

53:3 "Despised and rejected of men." While this is clearly applicable to Israel (see Isa. 60:15; Ps. 44:13-14), it cannot be reconciled with the New Testament account of Jesus, a man who was supposedly "praised by all" (Lk. 4:14-15) and followed by multitudes (Matt. 4:25), who would later acclaim him as a prophet upon his triumphal entry into Jerusalem (Matt. 21:9-11). Even as he was taken to be crucified, a multitude bemoaned his fate (Lk. 23:27). Jesus had to be taken by stealth, as the rulers feared "a riot of the people" (Mk. 14:1-2).

53:3 "A man of pains and acquainted with disease." Israel's adversities are frequently likened to sickness - see, e.g., Isa. 1:5-6; Jer. 10:19; Jer 30:12.

53:4 "Surely our diseases he carried and our pains he bore." In Matt. 8:17, this is correctly translated, and said to be literally (not spiritually) fulfilled in Jesus' healing of the sick, a reading inconsistent with the Christian mistranslation of 53:4 itself.

53:4 "Yet we ourselves esteemed him stricken, smitten of G- D and afflicted." See Jer. 30:17 - of God's servant Israel (30:10), it is said by the nations, "It is Zion; no one cares for her."

53:5 "But he was wounded from (NOTE: not for) our transgressions, he was crushed from (AGAIN: not for) our iniquities." Whereas the nations had thought the Servant (Israel) was undergoing Divine retribution for its sins (53:4), they now realize that the Servant's sufferings stemmed from their actions and sinfulness. This theme is further developed throughout our Jewish Scriptures - see, e.g., Jer. 50:7; Jer. 10:25. ALSO: Note that the Messiah "shall not fail nor be crushed till he has set the right in the earth" (Isa. 42:4).

53:7 "He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth. Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, and like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, so he did not open his mouth." Note that in the prior chapter (Isa. 52), Israel is said to have been oppressed and taken away without cause (52:4-5). A similar theme is developed in Psalm 44, wherein King David speaks of Israel's faithfulness even in the face of gentile oppression (44:17- 18) and describes Israel as "sheep to be slaughtered" in the midst of the unfaithful gentile nations (44:22,11).

Regarding the claim that Jesus "did not open his mouth" when faced with oppression and affliction, see Matt. 27:46, Jn. 18:23, 36-37.

53:8 "From dominion and judgment he was taken away." Note the correct translation of the Hebrew. The Christians are forced to mistranslate, since - by Jesus' own testimony - he never had any rights to rulership or judgment, at least not on the "first coming." See, e.g., Jn. 3:17; Jn. 8:15; Jn. 12:47; Jn. 18:36.

53:8 "He was cut off out of the land of the living." Israel is described as "cut off" in Ez 37:11.

53:8 "From my peoples' sins, there was injury to them."Here the Prophet makes absolutely clear, to anyone familiar with Biblical Hebrew, that the oppressed Servant is a collective Servant, not a single individual. The Hebrew word "lamoh - (lamed-mem-vav) ", when used in our Scriptures, always means "to them" never "to him" and may be found, for example, in Psalm 99:7 - "They kept his testimonies, and the statute that He gave to them."

53:9 "His grave was assigned with wicked men." See Ez. 37:11-14, wherein Israel is described as "cut off" and God promises to open its "graves" and bring Israel back into its own land. Other examples of figurative deaths include Ex. 10:17; 2 Sam. 9:8; 2 Sam. 16:9.

53:9 "And with the rich in his deaths." Perhaps King James should have changed the original Hebrew, which the plural "deaths" makes clear that we are dealing with a collective Servant, i.e., Israel, which will "come to life" when the exile ends (Ez. 37:14).

53:9 "He had done no violence." See Matt. 21:12; Mk. 11:15-16; Lk. 19:45; Lk. 19:27; Matt. 10:34 and Lk. 12:51; then judge for yourself whether this passage is truly consistent with the New Testament account of Jesus.

53:10 "He shall see his seed." The Hebrew word for "seed", used in this verse, always refers to physical descendants in our Jewish Scriptures. See, e.g., Gen. 12:7; Gen. 15:13; Gen. 46:6; Ex. 28:43. A different word, generally translated as "sons", is used to refer to spiritual descendants (see Deut. 14:1, e.g.).

53:10 "He will prolong his days." Not only did Jesus die young, but how could the days be prolonged of someone who is alleged to be God?

53:11 "With his knowledge the righteous one, my Servant, will cause many to be just." Note again the correct translation: the Servant will cause many to be just, he will not "justify the many." The Jewish mission is to serve as a "light to the nations" which will ultimately lead the world to a knowledge of the one true God, this both by example (Deut. 4:5-8; Zech. 8:23) and by instructing the nations in God's Law (Isa. 2:3-4; Micah 4:2-3).

53:12 "Therefore, I will divide a portion to him with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the mighty." If Jesus is God, does the idea of reward have any meaning? Is it not rather the Jewish people - who righteously bore the sins of the world and yet remained faithful to God (Ps. 44) - who will be rewarded, and this in the manner described more fully in Isaiah chapters 52 and 54?


The basic beliefs of Christianity about Jesus are against what the Bible says, and so Real Jews cannot believe in Jesus at all.

The Christian understanding is that the Messiah, Jesus, died for the sins of the people. The messiah is supposed to be a human sacrifice that is the blood sacrifice necessary for the forgiveness of sin.

But we are taught in our Torah that no one can die for the sins of another. In Deuteronomy 24:16 it specifically says this:

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not
be put to death for the children, neither
shall the children be put to death for
the fathers:
every man shall be put to death for his
own sin (eesh b’chet-o yumatu).

In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses tries to offer himself to atone for the sins of the people. To be written out of Gd's book, means to be written out of the Book of Life, which means Moses was asking to die for the sins of the People. Gd's response is No, it does not work that way, each man dies for his own sin:

Exodus 32:30-35 And it came to pass on the
morrow, that Moses said unto the people,
Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will
go up unto the Etrnl; perhaps I shall make
an atonement for your sin. And Moses
returned unto the Etrnl, and said, Oh,
this people have sinned a great sin, and
have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if
thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not,
blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book
which thou hast written. And the Etrnl
said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned
against me, him will I blot out of my
book.

The whole of chapter 18 of the book of Ezekiel is about this idea, that no one can die for someone else's sin. Further, this chapter of Ezekiel teaches us that all we have to do for Gd's forgiveness is to stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and Gd will forgive us:::

Ezekiel 18:1-4; 20-24; 26-27 .....Behold, all
souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so
also the soul of the son is mine: the soul
that sinneth, it shall die. Eze 18:20 The soul
that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not
bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall
the father bear the iniquity of the son: the
righteousness of the righteous shall be upon
him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be
upon him. But if the wicked will turn from all
his sins that he hath committed, and keep all
my statutes, and do that which is lawful and
right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
All his transgressions that he hath committed,
they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his
righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked
should die? saith the Etrnl Gd: and not that
he should return from his ways, and live?....
Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away
from his righteousness, and committeth
iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity
that he hath done shall he die. Again, when
the wicked man turneth away from his
wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth
that which is lawful and right, he shall save
his soul alive.

So, the Bible is clear, no one can die for the sins of another, and this means that Jesus cannot die for anyone else's sins.

Christians also believe that one needs a blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin, that one who does not have such a blood sacrifice will die in their sins, and go to hell, except for the sacrifice of Jesus.

This, too, is UnBiblical. The Bible describes blood sacrifices for the forgiveness of sin in the Book of Leviticus. But it is in Leviticus itself, in the middle of the discussion of the sin sacrifices, that we are taught that we do not need a blood sacrifice to be forgiven for our sins. Offering a blood sacrifice was an expensive thing to do for the family offering the animal. Was forgiveness then, to be only for the rich? No, because if one could not afford a blood sacrifice then one who sins could bring flour, which has no blood and no life as their sacrifice, and Gd forgave them!

Leviticus 5:11-13; But if he be not able to
bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons,
then he that sinned shall bring for his
offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine
flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil
upon it, neither shall he put any
frankincense thereon: for it is a sin
offering.

Furthermore, read the Book of Jonah. In Jonah, the People of Ninevah do three things in order to be forgiven by Gd. They fast, they pray for forgiveness, and they stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and Gd forgave them! This is exactly what we do on Yom Kippur, we fast, we pray for forgiveness, and, hopefully, we stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and Gd forgives us. And what book do we read on Yom Kippur afternoon? The Book of Jonah!

Jonah 3:7-10 And he caused it to be proclaimed
and published through Ninevah, by the decree
of the King and his nobles, saying, Let
neither man nor beast, herd nor flock taste
anything; let them not feed nor drink water;
but let man and beast be covered with
sackcloth, and cry mightily unto Gd; yea, let
them turn every one from his evil way, and
from the violence that is in their hands. Who
can tell if Gd will turn and repent, and turn
away from his fierce anger that we perish not?
And Gd saw their works, that they turned from
their evil way; and Gd repented of the evil,
that he had said that he would do unto them;
and he did not do it.

Please notice that Jonah tells us that Gd saw their WORKS, their deeds, how they turned from their evil ways, and Gd forgave them. It does not say that Gd saw their blood sacrifice, they never offered one. It does not say that Gd forgave them because they had the right faith, but rather it says that Gd forgave them because of their deeds!

Furthermore, Where were the sacrifices to have taken place? In the Temple built by Solomon. And what did Solomon himself say at the dedication of this very Temple where these sacrifices were to take place?

1 Kings 8:46-50 If they sin against thee, (for
there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be
angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy,
so that they carry them away captives unto the
land of the enemy, far or near; Yet if they
shall bethink themselves in the land whither
they were carried captives, and repent, and make
supplication unto thee in the land of them that
carried them captives, saying, We have sinned,
and have done perversely, we have committed
wickedness; And so return unto thee with all
their heart, and with all their soul, in the
land of their enemies, which led them away
captive, and pray unto thee toward their land,
which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city
which thou hast chosen, and the house which I
have built for thy name: Then hear thou their
prayer and their supplication in heaven thy
dwelling place, and maintain their cause, And
forgive thy people that have sinned against
thee, and all their transgressions wherein they
have transgressed against thee, and give them
compassion before them who carried them captive,
that they may have compassion on them:

So, at the dedication of the very place where these totally Unnecessary sacrifices were to take place, Solomon tells us that all we have to do is Repent, Pray, Admit our sins, and stop doing the evil, and Gd forgives, and all with no blood sacrifice!!

THE MESSIAH IN JUDAISM:::

How have we Jews, who invented the term, always defined the term Messiah?

1)The Messiah is born of two human parents, as we said.

But Jesus, according to Christian theology, was born of a union between a Human woman and Gd, just as Hercules was born of Zeus and the human woman named Alcmene, and just like Dionysis who was born of Zeus and Semele, as well as many other pagan gods.

2)The Messiah must trace his lineage through his human biological father, back to King David (Isaiah 11:1,10; Jeremiah 23:5; Ezekiel 34:23-24; 37:21-28; Jeremiah 30:7-10; 33:14-16; and Hosea 3:4-5)

But Jesus's lineage cannot go through his human father, according to Christian theology, as Jesus's father was not Joseph the husband of Mary. According to Christian theology, Jesus’s father was Gd.

3)The Messiah traces his lineage only through King Solomon, and cannot be adopted into the Royal line (II Samuel 7:12-17; I Chronicles 22:9-10)

But according to Luke 3:31, Jesus was a descendant of Nathan, another son of King David, and not a descendant of King David through King Solomon.

4)The Messiah can not trace his lineage through Jehoiakim, Jeconiah, or Shealtiel, because this royal line was cursed (I Chronicles 3:15-17; Jeremiah 22:18,30).

But according to both Matthew 1:11-12 and Luke 3:27, Jesus was a descendant of Shealtiel, grandson of Jehoiakim, and part of the cursed lineage.

Furthermore, according to the Jewish definition of the term, the Real Messiah will make changes in the real world, changes that one can see and perceive and be able to prove because these changes take place in the real world. It is for this task that the real messiah has been anointed in the first place, hence the term, messiah -- one who is anointed. These changes, that one will be able to see and perceive in the real world, include:

1)The Messiah is preceded by Elijah the prophet who, with the Messiah, unifies the family (Malachi 4:5-6)

Which is contradicted by Jesus in Matthew 10:34-37.

2)The Messiah re-establishes the Davidic dynasty through the messiah's own children (Daniel 7:13-14)

But Jesus had no children.

3)The Messiah brings an eternal peace between all nations, between all peoples, and between all people (Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-4; Ezekiel 39:9)

Obviously there is no peace. Furthermore, Jesus said that his purpose in coming was to bring a sword, and not peace (see Matthew 10:34, as referenced above.)

4)The Messiah brings about the universal world-wide conversion of all peoples to Judaism, or at least to Ethical Monotheism (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Zechariah 8:23; Isaiah 11:9; Zechariah 14:9,16)

But the world remains steeped in idolatry.

5)The Messiah brings about an end to all forms of idolatry (Zechariah 13:2);

But the world remains steeped in idolatry.

6)The Messiah brings about a universal recognition that the Jewish idea of Gd is Gd (Isaiah 11:9)

But the world remains steeped in idolatry.

7)The Messiah leads the world to become vegetarian (Isaiah 11:6-9)

It isn't.

8)The Messiah gathers to Israel, all of the twelve tribes (Ezekiel 36:24)

Many of the ten lost tribes remain lost.

9)The Messiah rebuilds The Temple (Isaiah 2:2; Ezekiel 37:26-28)

It hasn't been rebuilt.

10)There will be no more famine (Ezekiel 36:29-30)

People starve to death every day.

11)After the Messiah comes, death will eventually cease (Isaiah 25:8)

People die every day.

None of the following has happened, yet, either:::

12)Eventually the dead will be resurrected (Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; Ezekiel 37:12-13; Isaiah 43:5-6);

13)The nations of the earth will help the Jews, materially (Isaiah 60:5-6; 60:10-12;

14)The Jews will be sought out for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23);

15)All weapons will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9,12);

16)The Nile will run dry (Isaiah 11:15)

17)Monthly, the trees of Israel will yield their fruit (Ezekiel 47:12);

18)Each tribe of Israel will receive and settle their inherited land (Ezekiel 47:13-13);

19)The nations of the earth will recognize that they have been wrong, that the Jews have been right, and that the sins of the Gentile nations, their persecutions and the murders they committed, have been borne by the Jewish people (Isaiah 53)

These Biblically based changes in the world are very real, very perceivable, very noticeable, and knowable. But the changes that Christianity claims were made by Jesus are not perceivable at all. They must be accepted on faith, and faith alone. How can one know that Jesus died for their sins, except by faith? How can one know that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, except by the faith in the historical truth of the Christian’s New Testament? There is no birth certificate. The changes made by the Messiah according to Judaism are very provable, but the changes made by the Messiah, Jesus, according to Christianity can only be taken on faith.

Even Christians recognize that none of the changes made by the Messiah according to Judaism as read in the Bible have not happened yet. This is why Christianity invented the idea of a Second Coming. The real Messiah has no need to come a second time to do those things he must do the first time around in order to actually be the Messiah.

Quite simply, we Jews invented the term, “messiah.” When we are told by those of the Christian faith (which includes the “Jews” for Jesus and the Messianic “Jews” and the “Hebrew” Christians) that our definition, the Jewish definition of “messiah” is incorrect, it is like someone who does not speak English telling a person whose native tongue is English that the word “electrician” means someone who fixes the plumbing.

Source(s):
http://WhatJewsBelieve.org

THE MESSIAH IN JUDAISM:::

How have we Jews, who invented the term, always defined the term Messiah?

1)The Messiah is born of two human parents, as we said.

But Jesus, according to Christian theology, was born of a union between a Human woman and Gd, just as Hercules was born of Zeus and the human woman named Alcmene, and just like Dionysis who was born of Zeus and Semele, as well as many other pagan gods.

2)The Messiah must trace his lineage through his human biological father, back to King David (Isaiah 11:1,10; Jeremiah 23:5; Ezekiel 34:23-24; 37:21-28; Jeremiah 30:7-10; 33:14-16; and Hosea 3:4-5)

But Jesus's lineage cannot go through his human father, according to Christian theology, as Jesus's father was not Joseph the husband of Mary. According to Christian theology, Jesus’s father was Gd.

3)The Messiah traces his lineage only through King Solomon, and cannot be adopted into the Royal line (II Samuel 7:12-17; I Chronicles 22:9-10)

But according to Luke 3:31, Jesus was a descendant of Nathan, another son of King David, and not a descendant of King David through King Solomon.

4)The Messiah can not trace his lineage through Jehoiakim, Jeconiah, or Shealtiel, because this royal line was cursed (I Chronicles 3:15-17; Jeremiah 22:18,30).

But according to both Matthew 1:11-12 and Luke 3:27, Jesus was a descendant of Shealtiel, grandson of Jehoiakim, and part of the cursed lineage.

Furthermore, according to the Jewish definition of the term, the Real Messiah will make changes in the real world, changes that one can see and perceive and be able to prove because these changes take place in the real world. It is for this task that the real messiah has been anointed in the first place, hence the term, messiah -- one who is anointed. These changes, that one will be able to see and perceive in the real world, include:

1)The Messiah is preceded by Elijah the prophet who, with the Messiah, unifies the family (Malachi 4:5-6)

Which is contradicted by Jesus in Matthew 10:34-37.

2)The Messiah re-establishes the Davidic dynasty through the messiah's own children (Daniel 7:13-14)

But Jesus had no children.

3)The Messiah brings an eternal peace between all nations, between all peoples, and between all people (Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-4; Ezekiel 39:9)

Obviously there is no peace. Furthermore, Jesus said that his purpose in coming was to bring a sword, and not peace (see Matthew 10:34, as referenced above.)

4)The Messiah brings about the universal world-wide conversion of all peoples to Judaism, or at least to Ethical Monotheism (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Zechariah 8:23; Isaiah 11:9; Zechariah 14:9,16)

But the world remains steeped in idolatry.

5)The Messiah brings about an end to all forms of idolatry (Zechariah 13:2);

But the world remains steeped in idolatry.

6)The Messiah brings about a universal recognition that the Jewish idea of Gd is Gd (Isaiah 11:9)

But the world remains steeped in idolatry.

7)The Messiah leads the world to become vegetarian (Isaiah 11:6-9)

It isn't.

8)The Messiah gathers to Israel, all of the twelve tribes (Ezekiel 36:24)

Many of the ten lost tribes remain lost.

9)The Messiah rebuilds The Temple (Isaiah 2:2; Ezekiel 37:26-28)

It hasn't been rebuilt.

10)There will be no more famine (Ezekiel 36:29-30)

People starve to death every day.

11)After the Messiah comes, death will eventually cease (Isaiah 25:8)

People die every day.

None of the following has happened, yet, either:::

12)Eventually the dead will be resurrected (Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; Ezekiel 37:12-13; Isaiah 43:5-6);

13)The nations of the earth will help the Jews, materially (Isaiah 60:5-6; 60:10-12;

14)The Jews will be sought out for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23);

15)All weapons will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9,12);

16)The Nile will run dry (Isaiah 11:15)

17)Monthly, the trees of Israel will yield their fruit (Ezekiel 47:12);

18)Each tribe of Israel will receive and settle their inherited land (Ezekiel 47:13-13);

19)The nations of the earth will recognize that they have been wrong, that the Jews have been right, and that the sins of the Gentile nations, their persecutions and the murders they committed, have been borne by the Jewish people (Isaiah 53)

These Biblically based changes in the world are very real, very perceivable, very noticeable, and knowable. But the changes that Christianity claims were made by Jesus are not perceivable at all. They must be accepted on faith, and faith alone. How can one know that Jesus died for their sins, except by faith? How can one know that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, except by the faith in the historical truth of the Christian’s New Testament? There is no birth certificate. The changes made by the Messiah according to Judaism are very provable, but the changes made by the Messiah, Jesus, according to Christianity can only be taken on faith.

Even Christians recognize that none of the changes made by the Messiah according to Judaism as read in the Bible have not happened yet. This is why Christianity invented the idea of a Second Coming. The real Messiah has no need to come a second time to do those things he must do the first time around in order to actually be the Messiah.

Quite simply, we Jews invented the term, “messiah.” When we are told by those of the Christian faith (which includes the “Jews” for Jesus and the Messianic “Jews” and the “Hebrew” Christians) that our definition, the Jewish definition of “messiah” is incorrect, it is like someone who does not speak English telling a person whose native tongue is English that the word “electrician” means someone who fixes the plumbing.


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Asker's Rating:
Greatt thanks - and also gratvol, chaydov and tigersharkbeer for your informative answers :)


)You wrote, "Our difference is in the interpretation of the data." If the 'data' states specifically, "Every man shall be put to death for his own sin,' how do you interpret that statement to allow for Jesus dying for our sins? It seems to me that your interpretation of Isaiah must be incorrect, or that 'every man shall be put to death for his own sin,' does not mean what it says, or Gd changed His mind somewhere between Deut.24:16 and Isaiah 53.....???

1)You say 'no mortal man can atone,' so who actually did the dying on the cross? Gd cant die, so it was Jesus-the-mortal-man, and so all you have is a human sacrifice, which Gd calls an abomination and something He hates, in Deut 12:30-31!

FOR YOUR QUESTION ABOUT ISAIAH 53, see the BEST ANSWER AT:::

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/;_ylt=...

FOR YOUR QUESTION ABOUT LEV. 17:11, see the web sites i refer you to below.

2)And Jesus being your prophet priest and king, i refer you to what i wrote below, all the theology of Christianity still flies in the face of what Gd already revealed to us through his Bible. Even a Jesus/prophet/priest/king still has not brought about those things the real messiah will do!
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The basic beliefs of Christianity about Jesus are against what the Bible says, and so Real Jews cannot believe in Jesus at all.

The Christian understanding is that the Messiah, Jesus, died for the sins of the people. The messiah is supposed to be a human sacrifice that is the blood sacrifice necessary for the forgiveness of sin.

But we are taught in our Torah that no one can die for the sins of another. In Deuteronomy 24:16 it specifically says this:

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not
be put to death for the children, neither
shall the children be put to death for
the fathers:
every man shall be put to death for his
own sin (eesh b’chet-o yumatu).

In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses tries to offer himself to atone for the sins of the people. To be written out of Gd's book, means to be written out of the Book of Life, which means Moses was asking to die for the sins of the People. Gd's response is No, it does not work that way, each man dies for his own sin:

Exodus 32:30-35 And it came to pass on the
morrow, that Moses said unto the people,
Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will
go up unto the Etrnl; perhaps I shall make
an atonement for your sin. And Moses
returned unto the Etrnl, and said, Oh,
this people have sinned a great sin, and
have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if
thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not,
blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book
which thou hast written. And the Etrnl
said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned
against me, him will I blot out of my
book.

The whole of chapter 18 of the book of Ezekiel is about this idea, that no one can die for someone else's sin. Further, this chapter of Ezekiel teaches us that all we have to do for Gd's forgiveness is to stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and Gd will forgive us:::

Ezekiel 18:1-4; 20-24; 26-27 .....Behold, all
souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so
also the soul of the son is mine: the soul
that sinneth, it shall die. Eze 18:20 The soul
that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not
bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall
the father bear the iniquity of the son: the
righteousness of the righteous shall be upon
him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be
upon him. But if the wicked will turn from all
his sins that he hath committed, and keep all
my statutes, and do that which is lawful and
right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
All his transgressions that he hath committed,
they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his
righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked
should die? saith the Etrnl Gd: and not that
he should return from his ways, and live?....
Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away
from his righteousness, and committeth
iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity
that he hath done shall he die. Again, when
the wicked man turneth away from his
wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth
that which is lawful and right, he shall save
his soul alive.

So, the Bible is clear, no one can die for the sins of another, and this means that Jesus cannot die for anyone else's sins.

Christians also believe that one needs a blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin, that one who does not have such a blood sacrifice will die in their sins, and go to hell, except for the sacrifice of Jesus.

This, too, is UnBiblical. The Bible describes blood sacrifices for the forgiveness of sin in the Book of Leviticus. But it is in Leviticus itself, in the middle of the discussion of the sin sacrifices, that we are taught that we do not need a blood sacrifice to be forgiven for our sins. Offering a blood sacrifice was an expensive thing to do for the family offering the animal. Was forgiveness then, to be only for the rich? No, because if one could not afford a blood sacrifice then one who sins could bring flour, which has no blood and no life as their sacrifice, and Gd forgave them!

Leviticus 5:11-13; But if he be not able to
bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons,
then he that sinned shall bring for his
offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine
flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil
upon it, neither shall he put any
frankincense thereon: for it is a sin
offering.

Furthermore, read the Book of Jonah. In Jonah, the People of Ninevah do three things in order to be forgiven by Gd. They fast, they pray for forgiveness, and they stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and Gd forgave them! This is exactly what we do on Yom Kippur, we fast, we pray for forgiveness, and, hopefully, we stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and Gd forgives us. And what book do we read on Yom Kippur afternoon? The Book of Jonah!

Jonah 3:7-10 And he caused it to be proclaimed
and published through Ninevah, by the decree
of the King and his nobles, saying, Let
neither man nor beast, herd nor flock taste
anything; let them not feed nor drink water;
but let man and beast be covered with
sackcloth, and cry mightily unto Gd; yea, let
them turn every one from his evil way, and
from the violence that is in their hands. Who
can tell if Gd will turn and repent, and turn
away from his fierce anger that we perish not?
And Gd saw their works, that they turned from
their evil way; and Gd repented of the evil,
that he had said that he would do unto them;
and he did not do it.

Please notice that Jonah tells us that Gd saw their WORKS, their deeds, how they turned from their evil ways, and Gd forgave them. It does not say that Gd saw their blood sacrifice, they never offered one. It does not say that Gd forgave them because they had the right faith, but rather it says that Gd forgave them because of their deeds!

Furthermore, Where were the sacrifices to have taken place? In the Temple built by Solomon. And what did Solomon himself say at the dedication of this very Temple where these sacrifices were to take place?

1 Kings 8:46-50 If they sin against thee, (for
there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be
angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy,
so that they carry them away captives unto the
land of the enemy, far or near; Yet if they
shall bethink themselves in the land whither
they were carried captives, and repent, and make
supplication unto thee in the land of them that
carried them captives, saying, We have sinned,
and have done perversely, we have committed
wickedness; And so return unto thee with all
their heart, and with all their soul, in the
land of their enemies, which led them away
captive, and pray unto thee toward their land,
which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city
which thou hast chosen, and the house which I
have built for thy name: Then hear thou their
prayer and their supplication in heaven thy
dwelling place, and maintain their cause, And
forgive thy people that have sinned against
thee, and all their transgressions wherein they
have transgressed against thee, and give them
compassion before them who carried them captive,
that they may have compassion on them:

So, at the dedication of the very place where these totally Unnecessary sacrifices were to take place, Solomon tells us that all we have to do is Repent, Pray, Admit our sins, and stop doing the evil, and Gd forgives, and all with no blood sacrifice!!

By the way, Jesus was never called Yahshua, or Yeshua, in his whole life. That term was made up by the Messianic "Jews," and never is found in any writings at all until recently. Jesus would have been Yehoshua, Joshua.

p.s. the term 'messiah' does NOT mean 'saviour of souls,' it means 'one annointed' to do a specific task or tasks by Gd. Jesus fulfilled not even one of these tasks, thats why Christians created the idea of a 2nd Coming, claiming Jesus would do what the Real Messiah will do the first time around.

Source(s):
http://WhatJewsBelieve.org
http://JewsForJudaism.org
http://OutreachJudaism.org
http://MessiahTruth.org
http://messianicjewishtruth.com...
http://www.geocities.com/realjewsforjesu...
http://www.geocities.com/realappleofhise...


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Asker's Rating:
Excellent defense of Judaism.

To Ella: I was going to say "apology", but apparently you didn't realize that "apology" when used in religious discussion means a defense based upon reason and evidences. It doesn't mean "I'm sorry". I apologize for creating a misunderstanding about aoplogy. :-D





http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/...
http://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/07644a....

Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath,or that is in the water under the earth
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;


"..... and began to be sorrowful and very depressed. then saith he unto them, 'my soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto death....."

" and he went a little further , and fell on his face(exactly as a muslim does in his praying) and prayed, saying. O my father, if it is be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as i will, but as thuo will." (this is a quality of a good muslim who submits his will to the will of god) (matthew 26: 37-39)

" and being in an agony, he prayed more earnestly; and his sweat was as it were, great drops of blood falling down to the ground." (luke 22:44)

ATTN CHRISTIANS: Can you expalain the TERROR in the BIBLE???
Killing the Righteous before the wicked:
Ezekiel 21
3 and say to her: 'This is what the LORD says: I am against you. I will draw my sword from its scabbard and cut off from you both the righteous and the wicked.
4 Because I am going to cut off the righteous and the wicked, my sword will be unsheathed against everyone from south to north.
5 Then all people will know that I the LORD have drawn my sword from its scabbard; it will not return again.'

Killing the women and not the men for an even lesser sin!!
Leviticus 20:15 "If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal."
Leviticus 20:16 "If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
Leviticus 20:15 the man has to be caught having sex with an animal in order for him to be put to death. We have to be sure 100% beyond the shadow of the doubt to kill him.

Additional Details

2 minutes ago
Ezekiel 23
24 They will come against you with weapons, chariots and wagons and with a throng of people; they will take up positions against you on every side with large and small shields and with helmets. I will turn you over to them for punishment, and they will punish you according to their standards.
25 I will direct my jealous anger against you, and they will deal with you in fury. They will cut off your noses and your ears, and those of you who are left will fall by the sword. They will take away your sons and daughters, and those of you who are left will be consumed by fire.
26 They will also strip you of your clothes and take your fine jewelry.