why is it you atheist use logic as a defense yet you cant answer a simple question?

Question

In reference to my earlier question: the answers I received were mostly questions, or my question itself rephrased. Where is your intelligent response? Can you respond with out asking a question? Do you actually have an educated response? Do have any basis for your beliefs?

And to those of you who claim that compassion and respect for others is an innate behavior you are sadly disillusioned. Some of you ingrates actually said that animals share their food with other animals. Bullsh!t, some animals will eat their own offspring even my 8 year old knows that!

Answer 1

Hi, Jon.

I'm a Christian, and I thought you asked a good question earlier.

I also thought you received a number of good answers (amid a few pointed emotional posts... but hey, we're all used to that sort of thing, right? It's par for the course, for anyone of any belief system.)

You'd probably do better by actually considering what some of these people said and not responding in such a caustic manner. Some of those comments were (I think) sincere, but you're treating them with real disrespect.

You also did not really support your POV with the amount of detail you are demanding from THEM -- so I'm sure many of them are seeing you as hypocritical, whether you mean to be or not.

So, sure, feel free to disagree with them, but you're losing credibility and connection to the people you're trying to communicate with. (That's not your purpose, is it?)

As far as animal altruism goes, I do think it's difficult to compare animals to humans in some ways -- mostly because they run on instinct and can't "ignore" their programming, while we have freedom of choice and can at any point choose to deviate from ours. So while "altruism" shows up in animal populations, we can't anthropomorphize it and say they're being "altruistic" in the same way people can be.

Animals who eat their young also are not making conscious choices -- they simply have a "fritz" in their natural programming, and they're misapplying natural behaviors. It's unconscious behavior on their part. People, again, make that choice to do good or bad, although they certainly are programmed to feel certain ways about a behavior.

As far as selection of the fittest goes, I do happen to agree with you. I do think it's a double-standard -- "I say life has no absolute inherent value such as derived from God, yet somehow I live as if it does have meaning after all." That makes no logical sense to me.

Yes, altruism can pay off for an organism over the long term, but it adds a large level of inherent risk and the survival instinct occurs at the individual level, not at the group level.

Said another way, altruism is necessarily a group activity: My being altruistic might be best for my group and species, but it also places me at much more immediate risk because I am giving up valuable resources in the hopes that one day I'll be paid back... and with less guarantee I'll survive that long because I'm giving up resources.

As far as an individual strategy (which is what we're discussing) in a hostile environment, altruism makes little sense. It's always a bad deal in that situation to choose the "two birds in the bush" (a possible windfall) over the "bird in the hand" (the sure thing).

I think this thing goes for people too. If there is no long-term punishment or payoff for my behavior now, what benefit is there to my choosing to adhere to a certain standard? My life might be hastened or lengthened by my choices, but in the end even THAT comes to naught.

At best, all I can do (logically) is live for the moment and suck as much enjoyment out as I can. Death and dissolution is inevitable. Our choices do not matter at all, because even the people we affect now will all cease to exist.

The fact that we do NOT think this way, non-Christian or Christian alike, leads me to think that deep down we all believe there is SOME standard of absolute morality to adhere to.

Answer 2

Sorry you didn't get any good answers, I missed it so let me try now.

First, let me address one problem. I don't understand how you can say that good/bad come from god. If you admit that all cultures have some spirituality, but as a christian feel that all of these gods are false, then where did morality come from in these cultures?

Oops, more later...
Ok, as for survival of the fittest and living by gut instinct: The more education an animal requires to understand it's surroundings, the less it will use gut instinct in response to stimuli. Most predators and primates need to learn from their parents and social group. Most prey animials know just about all they need to know when they are born.

So humans obviously use their brains (logic or whatever) far mroe than any other animals. Being a social animal, we evolved to respect others in the group b/c disharmony was not benefical to survival. Animals that are more solitary do not behave like we do, they don't see value in being part of a group. If primates decided to take whatever they wanted and/or kill whoever they wanted at any time, groups just wouldn't be feasible. So we have a mix of altruism and selfishness that isn't perfect, but we get by.

I agree that if there is absolutely nothing larger than the individual, they would prbably have no integrity. if there are no consequences to rape/ stealing/ murder, they would have at it. But there IS something larger than the indivudual, that is the group.

Answer 3

With the argument you've got given, I just about ought to ponder whether you are particularly severe. Jesus being our savior is not particularly "common sense" persay. It's a notion. There is not any logical evidence that Jesus ever existed. Nothing cast, no less than. Logic isn't founded off of what's written on my own, however clinical observations and proof as good, and little to none of that exists that can again up among the bible. Also, atheism is not continuously nearly common sense. From private enjoy as an agnostic, I can say that it is going to simply be an issue of now not feeling correct following the Christian religion. I regarded myself Christian till a pair years in the past, whilst I learned I felt as even though I needed to drive myself to suppose something the Bible stated or something I discovered in church. I could not suppose of it as extra than simply lovely reports; ultimately I learned that if this was once real the correct avenue for me, it might think correct, and I would not ought to drive myself to suppose I believed it.

Answer 4

What is your question?

BTW, some animals will eat their own offspring and some share food. Intelligence and the ability to recognize the impact of your actions help people to develop compassion and respect. Some animals may not fully understand how their actions affect others. But any mentally stable adult human will have this ability.

Answer 5

i did read your previous answer, and some of the answers were actually really good. You're just fishing now, because you don't agree.

it's okay for you to disagree, but fishing for more, just because you think they are wrong and you are right, does not make it look like you were really looking for answers to begin with.

maybe you need my bible to convince you a little more that atheists, agnostics, etc really do have high morals.

"I do not drive too fast, even if i don't agree with the rules. I give too much change back to the girl behind the counter in the supermarket. When i find a wallet on the street, i return it to the owner without expecting a reward ,because the relief on your face is worth more to me than money. In a bar i'll talk to you, when you are standing alone. I will never jugde or disrespect you on your looks, not even on your charactre.

And i do that without any God telling me to do that

I give to charity, i seperate my garbage for a better environment. I rather put on an extra sweater, than to put up the heater. I never throw my chewing-gum on the street. Every week i buy the paper from a homeless person. I will help and support you if you're attacked by drunken guys on the street, i'll avoid the fight, but i'll never leave you alone. I help the old lady cross the street, i'll bring the crying lost little girl back to her mother.

And i do that without any God telling me to do that

I know no rules, except my own thoughts. After thinking everything through, i have to conclude that there must be 'something' to make this all happen. I've looked around and inspite of all the misery, the poorness, the crime, the hate, i don't see humans as sinners, but as people with choices. I don't think that i will be lost if i do not meditate on a mountain or pray under a cross. I don't even believe that the guy who blows himself up between a group of schoolkids will burn eternally.

And i think that without any God telling me to think that

Every person has something good inside. Sometimes on the surface, sometimes deep hidden inside. I hope that the God they all talk about, is not the guy with the beard sitting on a cloud. The God i have faith in, is just a metaphore. A feeling. A sence of all the goodness inside the people. Nothing more than that. And more clear: nothing less than that. The goodness in our heart is the most important thing we have. My God has an extra 'O'...Good.

And i am good, without any God telling me that

Good has no need for symbols. No cross, no boring books, no big fat guy, no cow, no buildings with colored glass windows. Good is everywhere and is eternal. There is no need to pray for something good, because it will always be there. There is also no need to pray to end something bad, because the bad will also always be there. Sure there are bad people. These people are to dumb to understand the good. Goodness, kindness can relieve you. Badness only creates more badness. We can never beat the badness. A bad guy with a gun can only be beaten by a good guy with a gun. But a good guy doesn't use a gun.

And even if the Good will always loose, I'll always try to be Good.

Everything has its time, and its place. In our sadness, in our anger, in our happyness, in our love we can see our humanity. These things make us to be the people we are, they shape us, they teach us, they make us really feel. And in every deep misery, there is always a hidden hope, cause we all know anything can always be done differently. This earth is our playground, to feel, to laugh, to cry, to love and to live.

And i live. And that's good."

Answer 6

I answered your question.

Just for the record, sharing and altruistic behavior has been observed in other species, most notably chimpanzees. It's up in the air as to whether they are actually being nice for the sake of kindness or just in the hopes that the recipient of their kindness will reciprocate later. But it does happen. There was a big article about it in Nature magazine a couple of years ago.

Answer 7

"Some of you ingrates actually said that animals share their food with other animals."

I don't think a squirrel is going to share an acorn with an elephant, but, animals of the same species or are very similar will share food with eachother. They will also do eachother favors if they know it will help them in the long run.

Now, what exactly is your question?

Answer 8

For your last paragraph, care to prove it?

You want evidence of altruism in animals? Look up Kin Selection in google.

Compassion and respect are innate for the cognitive mind, not necessarily in life.

Since the first paragraph is merely ranting, I feel there is no need to respond to it, besides noting it.

Answer 9

After reading what mark_intotdeauna wrote all I want to say is thank you to him for making me feel good about life.
Love & Light
Sharon
One Planet = One People

Answer 10

I fear you are looking for validation for what you believe. Anyone who disagrees with you is "wrong". I don't agree with you, sweetie, but I don't think you are "wrong". You believe what you believe for your path. Your beliefs are correct for yourself, your Path. My beliefs are correct for myself, for my own Path.

Are you honestly seeking to understand, or are you just wanting validation?