maybe this is a silly question on the apostates?

Question

I have heard it said that Jesus fufilled the OT that is why we are not required to follow the laws stated in it.

if that is so did Jesus followers after his death and before Paul keep the laws in the OT and if they did why?

Answer 1

Acts is sort of a transitional period. Since all the disciples and Apostles were Jews, they maintained all their holidays and traditions. Near the end of Acts, there is the matter of removing the labels "clean and unclean." Gentile Christians were not commanded to become circumcised (if they had proselytized into Judaism, they would have been required to be circumcised).

All but one of the ten commandments are reiterated and expounded upon in the New Testament. But the laws having to do with purity as a nation (dietary and clothing laws, etc.) are not part of Christianity because Christianity is not a civil or national law. It is spiritual and personal. We are not born into it, unless we chose to be born again of water and the spirit. Baptism is to us what circumcision was/is? to the Jews.

Answer 2

Most likely, all of Jesus' followers before Paul did indeed keep the commandments of the Torah. In fact, most of them probably would not have regarded Jesus as the divine Son of God. Even after Paul, for many years, there were significant numbers of Jews who believed Jesus to be the Messiah and yet did keep all the commandments, with the exception sometimes of the sin offerings, since Jesus himself would have been seen by some of these people as the ultimate sin offering.

It is obvious from reading Paul's letters themselves that the people were struggling over the issue of whether to keep the commandments, and how much of them to keep. Paul even opposes Peter to his face on this very issue.

The book of Matthew (5:17) quotes Jesus as saying that everyone is to follow all the laws and that anyone who disobeys them or teaches anyone to disobey even the least of them will be considered least in the kingdom of heaven. So even though Matthew is most likely after Paul, there is some question even there about the status of the law. And it is little wonder that the more Jewish of the early Christians liked the book of Matthew and considered Paul a heretic.

Of course, when Paul took the new religion to the Gentiles, that is when the issue of the laws comes up. For Jewish followers, it was a non-issue early on. Of course they would keep the law! Why wouldn't they? They were Jews.
This is why the earliest questions about the law were NOT did Jesus make the law null and void, but do GENTILES have to keep the laws, like the Jews. Early on, it seems clear that the issue was only over whether gentiles had to be circumcised, and how much if any of the laws they needed to keep.

It is obvious that if you want more people converting to your religion, you are going to fare better if you don't put demands on them such as circumcision! So it was decided that Gentiles need not be circumcised. Since the religion of Christianity spread to gentiles predominantly after the initial stages, obviously the law became less and less important.

Answer 3

Well, Jesus kept the laws of the OT, so why shouldn't they? He said in Mt 5:17-19, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Have heaven and earth passed? The law should still be kept. Why else do we bring up the 10 Commandments? If the law no longer matters, then neither should they. What Jesus did, however, was show us that the spirit of the law was more important than the letter. That we should 'rend our hearts and not our garments.' That, as in the parable of the good Samaritan, no matter how pious we are, if we do not help others in need, we are not fulfilling the law. And likewise, if we do help others and love God, we are fulfilling the law. God says over and over in the OT that he would rather we obey the spirit of the law with our hearts than strictly follow it to the letter but without any sincerity. Deut 10:16 for instance says, "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no longer stubborn." What he wants is for people to turn to him, not to follow rules they find meaningless. Thus if we do turn to him with all our heart, the essence, the purpose, the law itself is fulfilled. This is what we should be doing.

Answer 4

The Jewish believers continued in Torah. Torah is best interpreted as instruction/teaching not law in a legalistic sense.

Hey, why do christians sport the WWJD slogan anyway? Do they have in clue what he would do? If he is so admired , shouldn't we aim to live like him?

Interesting quote from one of the pagan christian church fathers who helped lay the foundation for a new religion that not even the Messiah would recognize today. This is what he said about the Jewish followers which, by the way, all the original followers were Jewish for at least 10 years after the resurrection.

"We shall now especially consider heretics who... call themselves Nazarenes; they are mainly Jews and nothing else. They make use not only of the New Testament but they also use in a way the Old Testament of the Jews, for they do not forbid the books of the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings, so that they are approved by the Jews, from whom the Nazarenes do not differ in anything, and they profess all the dogmas pertaining to the prescriptions of the Law and to the customs of the Jews, except they believe in Messiah... They preach that there is but one God and His Son Yeshua the Messiah. But they are very learned in the Hebrew language, for they, like the Jews, read the whole law, then the Prophets.. They differ from Jews because they believe in Messiah and from Christians in that they are this day bound to Jewish rites, such as circumcision, the Sabbath, and other ceremonies. They have the good news according to Matthew in its entirety in Hebrew. For it is clear that they preserve this, in the Hebrew alphabet, as it was originally written...Otherwise, this sect of Nazarenes thrives most vigorously in the state of Berea, in Coele-Syria, in Decapolis, around Pella, and in Bashan.. After they departed from Jerusalem, they made their start from here, as all the disciples dwelt in Pella, having been admonished by Christ to depart Jerusalem and emigrate because of imminent danger. Epiphanius (church father) Panarion 29 390 A.D."

A catholic pope even said," It is well known in the days of Constantine the Great, that some assemblies of Jewish Christians, being persecuted in Rome because they persisted in obedience to the Law of Moses, wandered off into the valleys where their descendants remain today. Pope Gregory VII (papal reign from 1073-1085)"

So, even in the 10th century, this Jewish believers continued in the Torah, the Law of Moses.Why wouldn't they continue in the law ?, It was God's word.God's word is perfect and eternal. Does God have multiple personalities and change His mind every 2,000 years on how He wants things done? Noah knew the difference between clean and unclean animals and that was way before the giving of the "Law". From the beginning, God established the 7th day Sabbath by His own example.

Besides , which laws are you saying we are not required to follow, the 10 commandments are part of the law. Which one of those do you have a problem with?

Answer 5

The Torah, the first 5 books of the OT, is full of commandments and laws. But there are disagreements to how the laws are interpretted.

Love Thy Neighbor - Who's your neighbor? What's love? What if...

Every Rabbi (teacher) had a different way of interpreting Jewish law. The Rabbi's interpretation was called his yoke. A rabbi's disciples would go out and teach that rabbi's yoke - not only for the sake of knowing it, but to actually LIVE it.

But there became problems. People became more interested in laws and religion than in helping people.

When Jesus came he said "I came not to condemn (the Torah), but to fulfill it." So the laws of the Torah were not lost. Jesus' ENTIRE LIFE was his yoke - his example as to how the laws of the Torah were to be fulfilled.

So the OT was not thrown out the window; Jesus showed us how to live it out. For example, if there was an ultimatum, helping people is more important than the Sabbath. We saw this in Jesus' life. The laws were built from principles of loving your neighbors, but love is more important than any law.

We are to follow the law of the Old Testament, as closely as Jesus followed them.

Learn as much as you can about Jewish life and culture from Jesus' day.

Source: "Velvet Elvis" by Rob Bell.

God Bless. Love Wins.

Answer 6

That is a good question, the law has been fulfilled and now we are governed by love right? because when the religious leaders asked Jesus what is the greatest command? He replied to love God, love others as you would yourself. If you love God or you neighbor would you gossip, hurt or kill another? the answer would be no because love does not do those things. We are now under Grace because we will sin regardless of how much we try, its our nature and we cannot change it. you notice how He didn't say the 10 commandments or the 7 deadly sins?!

Answer 7

Jesus fulfilled the laws of the OT by proving that it was possible to live by those rules.

Paul broke down the principle of the law, and made it very simple; If it's wrong, don't do it. If you do it anyway, then pay the price for it in the form of reaping as you have sown, and thank God for His saving grace.

This I believe; http://homelessheart.com/testimony.htm

Answer 8

That was a time of transition. There was disagreement amongst the disciples as to whether or not they should follow OT rules, if you read the NT you will see that there is a lot of discussion about whether or not gentiles were allowed to eat meat considered unclean, and whether or not Jews needed to continue to observe dietary restrictions.

Answer 9

My understanding is that the old laws were in affect until the beginning of the church. However, there were many Jews of that time that converted to christianity, but still could not let go of the old ways. Even one of the aposles (Peter?) was told by god to share the gospel with the gentiles. (In his dream, where he is offered unclean meat, and god says, go and eat.)

Answer 10

It has been a false teaching of the church for a long time- the OT law was never given as a means of salvation- no one ever in history could earn their salvation. After the Israelites were delivered from Egypt, saved by the blood of the lamb, (they were iven a picture and were able to look forward to the cross as we look back) -the laws were given not for the earning of anything but as a set of instructions on how to live a holy, sanctified, healthy, set apart life. It was to keep them set apart from the pagan societies and ways around them, to bring blessing and increase in their lives here on earth. The problem came when the rabbinical Jews began implementing their own laws on top of the instructions God gave- some of these rules were just to make it easier to obey God's laws- basically they built walls of rules around themselves to keep themselves from falling into sin- they began trying to burden everyone with these ordinances and teaching as if it were the way to salvation. When Jesus came to 'fulfill' the law- it was not to put it aside but to perfect it- Jesus walked Torah, God's law perfectly, without all of the additives and man instituted rituals. He was the perfect example of how to walk the true spirit of God's law and how to live a truly set apart life. The true Christian, follower of Christ will still obey the commands of God- we are freed from the law of sin and death but not the perfect instruction of God. We should still be celebrating Shabbat, eating according to the dietary laws and celebrating the feasts - basically following after Jesus' perfects walk. We do not need to continue offering sacrifices as Jesus became our perfect and ultimate sacrifice for the atonement of our sins and we do not need to stone anyone to death because Jesus took that punishment of death for our sins - He showed us how to walk Gods perfect law with justice, mercy and love- depending on Him alone for our salvation and not works as the Pharisees of the day tried to teach. I follow the torah BECAUSE I am saved, because I trust the Lord and because I believe His promises. . . because I get to, not because I have to - If we love Him, we are to keep his commands, even today!