'65 Mustang Cam & Crank Timing?

Question

I have a '65 Mustang Coupe with a 289 Small Block V8 (4bbl).

It was running fine, but then stopped. I'm somewhat mechanically inclined, but when I couldn't figure it out, I asked my dad to take a look at it.

We got the timing set correctly on the distributor (it's easy to get them 180 deg. out), but we noticed that as you crank the engine by hand, if you put your finger over the spark plug hole you feel it pushing air out (compression stroke - both valves closed, piston coming up) when the piston was all the way up, the rotor wouldn't be firing #1, even though it is set correctly.

My dad was convinced that it had jumped time - so I pulled everything off the front of the engine and took the timing cover off. I am looking at the cam gear (top big one) and the crank gear (bottom small one). Supposedly (according to the book) there should be a mark on the cam gear that should be pointing down when the crank gears keyway is pointing up.

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Unfortunately the cam gear on the car doesn't look like the one in the book that has a mark out by the teeth. Instead it looks kind of like a 3 spoke wheel. One spoke has a number printed on it (definitely not the timing mark), the second has a symbol that looks like a double-ended open end wrench >-----< (sort of like that) and the third side is blank - but has a notch closer to the camshaft. If the 'wrench' symbol is the timing mark, then it is mechancally in time, if it is the notch, then it is not.

I don't want to take the eccentric (fuel pump lobe thing) off because I don't want to have to mess with getting it back on correctly unless I have to. I am assuming that if I did take it off I would probably see the cam gear keyway, which might shed some light on it.

At any rate, the timing chain does seem slack, so I will probably end up changing it anyway, but I just thought I might ask if anyone had seen this before - serious answers only - thanks!

I almost forgot - another thing we noticed that leads us to believe it is mechanically out of time is that when you crank it with the starter - it seems to be shooting fuel back out of the carb.

I hope it is mechanical timing, because I can have it back together this weekend and be melting tires again!!

Thanks to Beth for correcting the misinformed answerer about the possibility of damage to the valves!!!

I found the timing dots after I posted my question (i read the manual a little closer too!! lol) It does appear to be in time, and I believe I did have it 180 out, and just didn't spend enough time trying to get it running.

Thank you for the suggestions to replace the timing set - since the chain does seem to have too much slack, I will probably take this suggestion (as long as I have it torn apart anyway).

This car has been reliable as hell - it's the first time I've had something happen that I couldn't fix easily. I'll figure it out - thanks again for all the great answers!!

Answer 1

The timing mark on the cam sprocket will be way out by the teeth not behind the fuel pump eccentric.

You do not need to check or be worried about bent valves on the 289 as it is a non interference engine.

On many engines the distributor is not on #1 TDC when the cam and crank sprocket marks are lined up. Just get the sprockets right, turn the engine to find #1 TDC and install distributor.

Answer 2

Ouch! If the timing chain indeed jumped a tooth or two you'd better pull the valve covers off and inspect the valve train. Pull a few suspect rocker arms off and with an auto-parts store valve spring compressor tool slide it on a rocker arm stud and put a rocker arm nut on the stud and pull the tool toward you. If all valves move freely your out of the woods. If you find that the lever will not push the valve spring down you need to remove the cylinder heads and replace all the bent valves. This should be done by a professional engine shop as damage may have been done to the valve seats and gouged some valve guides.

Spend a couple of bucks more and install a Cloyes Double Roller timing set. You get the upper and the lower crankshaft sprocket plus the timing double roller chain.

Answer 3

If the timing chain did jump, replace and start all over. You must check and see if the distributor is seated properly, and none of the teeth are damaged. When setting the timing, it is best to turn the engine by hand to see if there is compression, and if the distributor is pointed to #1 at the same time. It is possible to have it out different than 180 which I think is your current problem.

Answer 4

the timing marks are ON the Teeth of the gears-usually dots or small circles. for straight up cam timing- the set should be assembled with these dots together.
" the rotor wouldn't be firing #1, even though it is set correctly." Seems to me like this means an ignition timing prob. - u saying the rotor contact isn't at or just before #1 dist. contact when #1 piston is at TDC?

Answer 5

Your timing set that is there sounds like its a very cheap after market set, dump about 45.00 and go purchase another timing set. If you want to keep the set you have the notch is the timing, right now your car is out of time. If you upgrade your timing set you will be able to identify the marks and set it up correctly.