Laying 16" x 16" Ceramic Tiles in my kitchen?

Question

I am a handyman by nature. I do all my own plumbing, electrical work, carpentry and painting. One thing I have never done is lay a ceramic tile floor.
I own a 50+ year old house with a small kitchen, about 200 sq ft. The floor was originally white ceramic tile that we did not like. Several were broken. I removed them only to find that the person who put them down, placed them directly on top of the original hard wood floor. Many of the hardwood boards were so rotton I could push a screwdriver right through with little effort. I removed the hardwood floor only to find that the toung & groove floor is all dried out, cracked, split and weak.
I plan to replace the subfloor with 3/4 or 5/8 plywood, then place a layer of 1/2 hardboard (already purchased) then the tile. Since I hace never done this before (brave guy I am) I have some questions.
Do I need to put a layer of cement between the plywood and hardboard and screw it to the studs? If so what size trowel notch is needed? Advice

Answer 1

I see many valid suggestions so far. Kudos to all. I TILE every day of my life, and have for my entire trades career. I'll offer two cents.

No you do not need to Fill spaces/butted joints, NOR do you need to "Cement" one layer to the lower one..However as one answer states, you probably should TURN the "Concrete backer board" avoiding seams over seams (not certain what you define as HARDboard) perpendicular with the 3/4 PLY substrate. Obvioulsy checking FLUSH with every section installed.

One thing I suggest before you lay down even one sheet of ply, is check the floor joists for stability/ rot/ LEVEL/ etc. That assumes such is the case. If the entire construction was done over a slab,,,which makes no sense at all, then this is a moot point. OOPS I see you mention "Studs"

I'll assume you either have no cove base currently, or plan to remove it, to replace after the fact. I'll also assume you have "Squared" the install area to determine snapping two perpendicular lines, defining aesthetically, the best positioning of as many full sheets as will look best, allow any periemeter cuts if neccesary, even on opposing sides, to be as even as possible, in the possibility that you can shift center lines, and hide cut edges at 1/4 inch OFF the perimeter walls.

If you're using 1/4 inch grout lines, you'll add 1 inch for every full tile you set, IE: 16 x 4 = 64, plus 1 inch grout, and define what might have to be cut after comparing the install space to the tile layout. I very often lay out two opposing courses of tile to know how I might best SHIFT my center point.

Save any/all cuts until the end, at least for THE INSTALL.

I suggest a decent PolyBlend Thinset MORTAR, allowing a dry time of no less than 24, hours, and once you've determined your layout, work backwards toward an exit point, NOT insisting undue pressure of a fresh set piece. That's why I also suggest saving CUTS install till the end. certainly a 1/4 inch notched flat tooth rectangular "trowel" is common, and feeling with your hand, those adjoining pieces, as well as using a level.

I also use a polyblend grout, and BOTH mortar and grout mixed no thinner than a mashed potato consistency. If you can POUR the substances, then you mixed them too thin.

Given interior heat/cool situations, 24 hours should be sufficient to WALK ON, and begin grouting. Hopefully in that process, you'll do that and the mortar/set, in small areas at a time, 6, 9, 12 tiles, as an example. Grout WIPING should be a standard $2 specific sponge, a rectangular Rubberized squuegie trowel, and done in 3 stages. Initially JUST damp, then as the grout sets, you can increase the moisture in the wipe. By the 3rd time, just QUIT. The residue will be a DUST, easily mopped away after the fact. Allow no less than another 24 hours for GROUT SET, and Pick up and carry, anything to set on the floor, OR in the case of a stove or refrig. use a handtruck.

I rarely SEAL grout, but certainly there are products stated to do so. The issue I have with them is that they require regular re-sealing. That's pretty much a personal choice, not a Tile law.

Steven Wolf

Answer 2

can't you find any larger sized tiles?

Sounds like we're down to the joists. Make sure they're ok, replace as necessary. May as well install some solid blocking while you're down there. screw or ring shank nail in place, every 4 feet. Use 3/4 subfloor. construction adhesive, then ring shank nails. Nail according to schedule-what is it 6 in the field and 8 on the edges? read up.

Choose a tilebacker. I prefer denshield. follow the instructions. laminate to subfloor with mortar, use roofing nails or screws every 8 inches, stagger joints, don't put a joint on a subfloor joint. tape joints and fill with mortar.

Decide how you want your tile. you can dry lay them if you like. Perhaps you can break a few of those 16" monsters if you handle them enough times. Aren't there any 30" tile in your area?

Better get a 1" x 1" notched trowel, like you're going to lay flagstone.

Snap some lines if you like. Once you mortar over them, you won't be able to find them anymore. But everyone should try this at least once.

Pull a line from a nail to a nail and keep it up off the floor by a 1/4 or 1/2 inch with a piece of plywood. Lay off this line to begin with. Use spacers and you'll find it difficult to screw up.

Lay all your tile up against a wall and see if they are all the same size first.

You will need mortar to set the tile in, and you should grout afterwards. When choosing grout, choose between black, midnight black, raven, and charcoal. Or go outside and get some of your local dirt and mix it with some animal **** and some bacon grease and red wine and try to match this color.

Better yet, use epoxy grout. If you put it on your 16" tile, you should be able to apply it with a tuck pointing trowel.

Keep some slippers in your entry closet and offer them to any women who say that your floor looks cold.

Answer 3

I would say that the cement would not be necessary. Just be sure to use lots of screws when attaching the new plywood flooring to the floor joists, and also use a lot of screws when attaching the hardboard to the plywood flooring. The screws should be sufficient to hold everything in place.

The only advantage to using some sort of adhesive between the layers is if you expect that the floor will still flex after you are done. If the floor can still flex, even with all the screws in it, then you may get some squeaking later, and the adhesive may help prevent it. If you decide to use adhesive, you can probably use a 1/4'' notched trowel. Just be sure to screw the hardboard down fairly soon after the adhesive is applied.

One thing to keep in mind: When positioning the hardboard, make sure that the edges of the hardboard DO NOT line up with the edges of the plywood boards that you use for the subfloor. If the edges are lined up, the probability increases that a crack will form in the installed tile, if there is any flexing at all.

Answer 4

Not cement..use sub floor adhesive w/ caulk gun.Glue along joists-and areas between that seem maybe weeker or cupped down.the floor must be absolute secure as to not allow any bowing/movement. Using 16 x 16 will make you very suseptible to hollow spots,and very easily cracked.use a 24" level for individual tile-and ck. whole floor w long straight edge after laying out. Tapping tile and listening for hollow sound while curing-and before grout-will allow for better job

Answer 5

I would lay a mud job. It will last longer than tile laid over cement board. First, bridge the bays between the joists with plywood and cleats set so the plywood is level with the top of the joists. (watch the grain on the ply) This is to gain maximum substrate, Then, lay tarpaper down to prevent water from dripping through. Over that lay expanded mesh overlapping edges and secured with roofing nails. Lay and level ready mix mortar to 1" thick over the mesh. Allow 2 days to set. Then, thinset your 16" tiles in place. Use a coarse notched trowel. The tiles will never crack and that floor will outlast you. Grout and seal.

A lot of work, but a permanent floor. If you opt just for cement board over plywood on the joists, you need to use a smaller tile. 16" tiles will crack.

Answer 6

My Brother-in-Law does tile for a living. No cement needed between the layers! If you do other handyman work, then you know that the wood is going to expand and contract with temperature changes. If you use cement between the layers, you'll run the risk of your underlayment buckling when the sub-floor expands or contracts.
Did you get the cement board, or just hardboard? You can use either, but in a kitchen or bath, the cement board is a little more resistant to spills that might seep through the grout and adhesive layers. Make sure you seal your grout thoroughly after it's dried.

Best of luck!

Answer 7

Agree with the above. Would add that you should also stagger the joints of the backer board. Sort of like brick work so every third joint would be the same...I personally like cement backer board better.... I put in tons of screws, especially along the joints and use mesh tape w/ thinset on the cement board joints. I have never used thinset below the backer board but I often use tubes of liquid nails - no trowel just an s-pattern...especially on larger areas. Say one tube per 3x5 sheet. Never had a call back in 25 years.

Answer 8

Hey,
A good natural remedy for premature ejaculation can be found on this site http://www.goobypls.com/r/rd.asp?gid=565

Rapid climax, early ejaculation, premature ejaculation, whatever you call it, it’s a problem plaguing hundreds of men, although many might not admit it. That’s because ever since ancient times sexual performance has been linked to a man’s virility and masculinity. It’s easy to understand then why a man might want to avoid talking about his ejaculation concerns, either with his partner or anyone else. However, premature ejaculation is actually the most common sexual problem faced by men. Whether it is a persistent concern, or just an occasional incident, most men have reported having some trouble with controlling their ejaculation at one point or another.
Bye Bye

Answer 9

I have done flooring in the past, you do not need to trowel any cement or thinset inbetween the subfloor and the backerboard. You do want to make sure that is as level as possible and secured with screws, not nails. Also, when you lay out your tile, try to make sure that you don't match any tile seams with your underlayment seams to avoid cracks in the grout.

Answer 10

The best underlayment for a tile floor is cementboard. Making sure the subfloor is solid and does not move much is also important.