I've just been listening to the pathetique....?

Question

I'm clearly hearing mozart's teaching here, but where do I meet Beethoven in this?

Answer 1

Vanessa C might be right.
K 457 has been nicknamed "the little Pathetique."

However, I was surprised to learn that the Pathetique Sonata was an early work. He wreaks a few daredevil stunts, and we usually associate daredevil stunts with Beethoven's later works.

It is common to find a slow introduction in a classical symphony, but not in a classical sonata. Furthermore, restating the slow introduction two more times during the movement is un-heard-of. Note the thick chords in the bass in this introduction, and for that matter, in divers other places throughout the sonata. The rule book says not to write thick chords in the bass unless your name is Ludwig von Beethoven.

Another of his daredevil stunts is starting the second theme in the wrong key but ending it in the right key. In the exposition, it starts in eb minor (ms. 51) and ends up in Eb major (ms. 89). In the recapitulation, it starts in f minor (ms. 223) and ends up in c minor (ms. 255).

The development section, beginning at ms. 139, is so far off the key of c minor that Beethoven had to cancel the key signature. It is in the raised mediant of c minor--or e minor. It was Mozart's idea to write a piano concerto with the first movement in c minor and the second movement in E major. Beethoven copied this idea. But here he makes a twist by beginning the development in e minor.

Giving the main theme the short shrift in the recapitulation (ms. 197) is also unusual. The usual custom here is to establish tonality by dwelling in the tonic key. On the contrary, Beethoven modulates through the murk and the mire, and does it very quickly.

Now let's look at the second movement, which is in the short rondo form.

A in tonic (ms. 1).

B in sub-dominant (ms. 17). Only notice that he starts in f minor instead of Eb major.

A in tonic (ms. 29)

C in mediant minor (ms. 37). Maybe the choice of key is somewhat unusual.

A in tonic (ms. 51). Notice that Beethoven continues the triplets which he started in the C theme.
I notice that Tschaikovsky and Cesar Franck delight in capturing a motive in a subsidiary theme and continuing that motive in a restatement of the main theme. I could be wrong, but I don't believe that Mozart ever used this device. I suspect that it is Beethoven's invention.
When I play this passage, I find it tremendously exciting, and I want to shout it from the rooftops. But the dynamic marking forbids that. Beethoven is always doing that to me: making me play soft when I want to play loud.

Coda in tonic (ms. 67)

Now for the third movement:

A theme in tonic (ms. 1). Notice that the first four notes of this theme are the same as the first four notes of the second theme in the first movement. A resemblance between themes of different movements of the same composition is called a "thematic link." Have you noticed the arpeggio motive in the first and last movements of the Moonlight Sonata? Or the four-note motive in the first and third movements of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony?

I was tempted to say that thematic links were Beethoven's invention, but then I remembered that the triad motif runs all through K545. At least one analyst suggests that this pattern is deliberate on Mozart's part.

B theme in relative major (ms. 34). He sticks in an extra sub-theme in the same key at ms. 44 and restates the first sub-theme at ms. 51. I don't remember Mozart ever doing that.

A theme in tonic (ms. 62)

C theme in Ab major (ms. 79). Notice the resemblance to the main theme of the second movement. This is another thematic link.

A theme in tonic (ms. 121)

B theme in parallel major (ms. 143). The second sub-theme reappears in ms. 158. Beethoven must be afraid of boring us with the first sub-theme a fourth time, because this section leads directly into . . .

A theme in tonic (ms. 171)

I'm not sure where the coda starts. Probably ms. 182, where he starts spoofing the B theme. At ms. 203, he makes a pun which confuses the A theme of this movement with the A theme of the second movement.

Answer 2

um,,,,as the composer?
Beethoven’s Pathetique may very well have been inspired from Mozart’s piano sonata K. 457, since both compositions are in C minor and have three very similar movements.

Answer 3

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, but I will say that if you want to play Beethoven in a more Beethovenian way, use striking dynamic contrasts, and a LITTLE bit of judicious rubato, which is not advisable in Mozart, but is allowable in Beethoven if done tastefully.