Tell me the difference?

Question

Between what Chris Simon did to Ruutu and what Maxime Afinogenov did to Scottie Upshall? Look pretty goddamn similiar to me. If that had been Steve Downie, you can be sure he would have recieved his 20 game suspension by now.

You have all seen the Simon incident. Afinogenov slew footed Scottie Upshaw and then attempted to step on him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg-_LszVAtU

Where is his suspension? Double standard? WTF?

I mean, come on. Simon was vilified for this type of behavior. I know his is to the extreme because he is a repeat offendor but his is worth 30 games and this one is worth 0? Smells like BS to me.
BTW, no penalty on the play either.

Benny- I am not comparing the players- just the incidents.

288- It was Saturday. I am not saying it should be as bad as Simon's since being a repeat offender factors in. How can you say there was no intent to injure. Just a slewfoot, minus the stomping motion he made at him is in itself an attempt to injure.

Sens- It WAS Downie's 1st offence.

Glen-The Q you asked was about Lapointe and a knee on knee. Show me one knee on knee hit in the history of the NHL that has garnered a 20-30 game suspension. There is no precedent.
I am comparing this to Simon's-therefore there is precedent. Besides, I am not even saying it should be a 20 game suspension, I am saying that compared to Simon's-it should be something. My point is there is a double standard.

Also- I didn't "hate on" your Q, I just gave you my opinion.

BTW Sens, Merry XMas back at you.

JP- I had already noticed the grab by Upshall. So wouldn't the natural reaction of Afinogenov be to pull his leg away? BUT he stepped toward and downward at Upshall in an attempt to stomp on him. He then sort of kicked, they can make an excuse of that one because he can say he was trying to "shake off" the grab.

Answer 1

I'm sorry but you (NHL) cant look at names when handing out suspensions. i believe that deserves at least the 20 if not 30 games. the slew foot is bad but then that end stomp is extremely dangerous. way it looked he wasn't going for the boot of the skate and could have cut the guy badly. would definitely say if he doesn't get anything or gets less then 10 its a huge double standard. these are the type of incidents that the NHL needs to crack down on. personal opinion anything involving skate or stick in that manner needs to have a precedence set for at least 20 games. its one thing to play hard and elbow get up or check into the boards wrong, but using a weapon is crossing a line. again just my opinion for what its worth...

i thought slew foot was auto game misconduct and game suspension on its own

lubers... oh i do think overall length you do have to take into account history, but there needs to be a standard set that's in my mind is harsh for the first timers... for those that don't remember i called for at least rest of a season on Simon so this one would be less if i had my way which yeah i know i don't but still.


bob that lapointe knee on knee ... after watching it over and over again i never could justify a reaction because at most the standard one gamer is all i saw... i didnt reply to the question any farther cause the guy came across as a homer, and wouldnt respect any other opinion other then those agreeing with him. also seen you blast a person lot worse (didnt think you did at all there), so find it funny he coming back like he did. if i remember correctly in the late 90's when the NHL cracked down on knee on knee wasnt the longest given a 2or 3 game for a multi offender. though Pronger's self suspension after his attempt on Stevie was funny.

Answer 2

I'm sure you won't like my answer, because we all know I like the Sabres and you don't. However, after watching that (very short) video numerous times, I think Maxim may have been trying to shrug off/fight his way from the refs. And kicking is a little different (not acceptable, just different) than coming down with an exposed blade. And perhaps Simon's extensive history of being a jacka$$ played a part in C. Campbell's decision.

Answer 3

The real beauty of it is that if we took Simon out of the equation and simply reversed the roles, the "Ban Upshall and execute him at dawn" questions would be almost as popular as "what is a Hab?".

There was another hit on either Friday or Saturday night that struck me as similar to the Hartnell hit on Alberts. I believe it was Upshall, I am not 100% certain who the player was, but they lose their stick and as they bent over to pick their stick up they were blasted by a Sabres player. I don't know if there was a penalty called, but there was definitely no suspension.

I don't let these things get to me too much. I get more upset when I think a guy is getting railroaded and doesn't deserve it. Watching that, if Simon deserves 30 games given his track record, Afinogenov deserves 8 or so.

LITY and No Dirt: I strongly disagree with your thoughts on this. I believe that a player's history should influence the length of the suspension. I can buy a player losing his mind for the split second it takes to do something stupid like this. If a player repeatedly keeps making these mistakes, his punishment should be increased with each offense.

Answer 4

Short memories Bob. And people still hold deep resentment toward the Flyers. But I have to hand it to Habs fans who don't post their Anti-Philly views here. I'd be the first to remind them how their "God" Maurice Richard, tomahawked some player over the head in the 40's, as well as their deplorable behavior of rioting when he got suspended and how they harassed the commish at a game in the hallowed hotbed of hockey. That never happened in Philly and I don't care about the passion piece.

I am appalled at the lack of concern over Gagne not because he is a Flyer and that they are my team. Its because Simon (Gagne) is a talented skater-type of player not known as a "Broad Street Bully" kind of player. He receives a cheap shot and not a peep from the tree-huggers.

A double-standard in spades.

Hypocrites.

That's what's so f'd up about the NHL. They are so petty and don't care about the big picture. I hope it isn't so, but the Alan Eagleson affair probably isn't an isolated case. There is probably more subversive and underhanded dealings going on that the general public doesn't know about.

It wouldn't surprise me if some day we hear about what that NBA ref did going on in hockey as well. The officiating in the NHL is worse than I have ever seen and they got two refs in a game now. It can't be hard to tweak a few of things that are wrong with the NHL, but there are too many backward facing powers that be to expect any change for the better.

The league is in its own way. Too bad the WHA failed.

Rant's over.

Merry Christmas.

Answer 5

Watch that again. Max slewfooted for sure. But Upshall, grabbed his left leg, and tried to pull him down, it wasnt a kick. Watch it again, and look at Max's left leg, when it looks like he kicked him, you will see Upshall's glove pull his leg. BTW, I am a Wings fan, not a Sabres fan, so no need to call me a homer. As a Flyers fan, i am sure you will see it the way you want to, but try to be objective, because the suspensions the Flyers got this year, were all well deserved. Although, I didnt think the Downie hit was that bad.

Answer 6

yeah I was actually sitting right in the corner where that happened and I couldn't believe they didn't throw em in the box for what he did. And, yes, you're right, a small one or two game suspension should be in order for the attempted kick. However I really wouldn't compare him to Simon. Max has never had an incident like that. They were also going at it the whole game, now I realize that gives him no reason to do something stupid like that but, it did not look like he had such a malicious intent to injure him.

Answer 7

Yeah that should be worth a few games and something could still come of it after Christmas. Still not quite in the same class as Simon and his eight different instances though. I'm sure the Flyers have asked that it be reviewed by the league. Keep your shorts on. I think there could be something yet. Once the media starts to show that kind of stuff it's hard for the league to ignore it.

Answer 8

I think the punishment should fit the crime.

I felt Simon should have gotten more than 25 games for the Ruutu incident, not because it was his 8th offence, but because it was - in my eyes - worse than the Boulerice/Kesler incident in which Boulerice got 25.

This is the same, Afinogenov should get the same 30 games that Simon got because it was a similar incident to the Simon/Ruutu incident.

Now, having said that, I hate Jarkko and he probably got what he deserved, and I have Afinogenov on my hockey pool team (which has no drop/free agent policy) and I'd hate to lose him.

But, it's not up to me (else Zetterberg and Datsyuk would be mysteriously suspended the night before the next Hawk game).

Answer 9

When was this? Never seen that before...

A few factors.

- Simon has a history of on-ice rage and is a repeat offender.
- Just from the replay, Afinogenov had no intent to injure, Simon did. Afinogenov just wanted to offend Upshall.
- It looked like Afinogenov and Upshall were in a scrum, Simon and Ruutu was not. Ruutu was crawling back to the bench after taking a shot to the foot (that was Simon's shot, wasn't it?) and wasn't even in Simon's face what so ever.

I do agree though about the non-call, if that was the case.

I still don't see the intent to injure, but Afinogenov (I'm so sick of typing that name right now; it's so awkward) throwing him down. Think about it this way: When you take someone down in a physical confrontation, are you really trying to injure the guy? Obviously, you're trying to hurt him, but do you really want to hurt him enough to take him out of the game? I don't think Afinogenov (got smart and copied and pasted that one) wanted to. Simon's got issues and the league knew it, that's why he was suspended.

Also, when someone is tripped like that, the human body and mind will adapt to figure out the best way to take the fall. Upshall turned to his right and landed on his arm, elbow pad first. Even if he couldn't turn, he'll fall on his butt and the pants are designed to take punishment like that, or, worst case that I can think of, he'll fall on his as$, back, and head at the same time; which is nothing because the impact is so spread out, like the sleeping on a bed of nails principle.

Anyways, Bob, I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing. I really couldn't care..so bloody boring here today...lol

Answer 10

The only reason I can think of for Afinogenov not to be suspended is he can say he was off balance and was not attempting to kick Upshall. The slew foot didn't look like a class act either which should have at least drew an unsportsman-like major.
I didn't think Afinogenov was that dirty of a player, but in the clip, it sure looks deliberate.