Michael Moore Vs. Private Insurance? Who's in the right and why?

Question

I truly am interested in both sides, and I know we can't group all private-insurance as being corrupt. But Moore, raises a good point:

"How Can for-profit companies, truly have the patients-best interest at heart, when patients are in dire-need to cash in their policies?"

maybe, socialized-medicine, isn't the anti-christ, americans have been indoctrinated to believe....(oops, guess, I revealed a touch of bias)..

Game On!

Negaduck: Good Point! I never thought of it in those terms before, but car-insurance has consumer-agencies does it not to be car-insurance companies accountable, no?

It may be the same with Health-insurance, but when life&death is on the line, can we really expect people(unhealthy-people), to blow the whistle on corrupt-agencies....there's got to be a better-way..

Gordon Gecko: Welcome...to be fair, can you suggest any good-quality private-insurance companies, that people struggling with their own can turn-to if need, be?

Pusherho: Welcome to the debate; Creative-destruction sounds interesting, pardon my ignorance..but is that "Sarcasm(Moore-refrence)", or positive-variable, unique to private health-care?

Rickinno: You may very well, be right, and if so I'm willing to concede, such....Gentlemen...fair arguments, thanks...

What about Insurance that denies(Private or Government) people coverage for pre-exisiting conditons....anything from high-blood-pressure to terminal-illness, is this truly ethical, or just the nature of the Corporate-Beast???Compassion can be corporate as well(Bill Gates and G8+micro-loans), but doesn't more compassion need to be a factor in Corporate, as it relates to Insurance. As to Government, how do we address poverty-finances(Patch-Adams-Clinics?)

Richard: Point taken Sir, And a workable solution you say is.....??? Welcome, by the way.

Wise Duck: Thank You for acknowledging both sides strengths and weaknesses.

This may be apples and oarnges, but Oil, is totally Corporate right? Why can't we as citizens demand and get lower-gas-prices? I believe it's due to the necessity and dependence factor, like I suggested above...You?

Fredrick T: Is Moore correct in assuming that there are Socialized-entities in America; like libraries? Could we swap these services with Health-care, or would this cure be worse then the disease? As othes suggest?

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Sorry all I need to step out for a couple of hours, I'll do my best to comment on responses, if time-permits...

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And we're back....

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------Part 2/Gordon Gecko-----

I guess this is what it really comes down to isn't. Man, I wish the system was better for all of us. We can say what we want about Moore, but he has inspired thousands-of conversations, like the one your currently viewing.

I admire, you Macgyvering the system for survival, whatever is on the horizon, I hope it brings a better quality of life for all of us..

SeE G:Hope I got the avatar right, my apologies, otherwise..Welcome, I believe I am of likemind, still thus-far though I haven't quite decided why yet...

Your right though, if anyone to be exempt from blame, it should be the direct-staff(Nurses, MD's, etc.), In this light what of Patch-Adam's, and the free health-clinic idea sponsored by Philanthropist(eg. Bill Gates), is this an idea for a solution, though long-term, we may save our Great-grandchildren if not our children( 4-5 generations vs now)...Any Canadians, or others outside the U.S. that would care to comment, I swear the water's warm...

KennyJ: Thanks for that and welcome, for a second, when I saw "Propagandist" I thought it would be Anti-Moore, but then your brought it back.

I believe you call him as you see them! This is for anyone out there:

What of the facts that costs of care are down in Countries that are represented in Moore's movie, according to Moore life & death surgeries are given priority over scrapes and bruises, contrary to what some Privatist would have us believe, is this true? If so, we have reason to doubt? No?

Mohan M: Well Said, and with experience sounds like! Welcome.

People, I believe, this is what the debate should really be about, exposure by Transparency of Unethical Companies(Wether it's Billing/Processing, etc.

Moor's assertion is just like Mohan's, their are people that are rewarded to ignore/corrupt/or deny claims!
{{Isn't easier for planes to drop-bombs and kill-thousands, then for an individual-soldier to take his first-individual life, sad = yes, and is it not the same with managed health care to remove the deniers from the battlefield, and bomb at a distance???}}

Thanks Mohan....I hope by your ethic, you can restore transparency and heal the corruption that surrounds you and others.

Sly Fox: This has been my biggest fear all along, that American's have had the wool(including myself) over their eyes. Yet at best Sly Fox, we are more of a mock-democracy then true-democracy, and it would appear the electoral college is as corrupt as our health-care system...And at best we are really a Republic(and to the 'Republic' for which it stands, one nation, under..."

The U.S. is undergoing an identity-crises, much like the rest of us individually....Transparency, Transparency, Transparency for all, anyone else?

If not I'll try to wrap this up before the 12th hour....

Clarification: not Midnight, but just shy of 12 hours from now, whatever your watch may say...Night All, to those it applies, Morning, otherwise???

Sadie C: Nice words and welcome...would it be fair to say though, that transparency as it relates to consumer and agency(Health-Ins) or other entities, would be a constructive step for our Nation? At the very least, consumers and patients alike, could see who plays by the rules, and who's-unfairly in their wallet?

Answer 1

I think none of the people who answered the question ever worked for an insurance company. I did.

Lot of bills submitted to insurance companies are NEVER checked throughly and properly with the result..claim is denied using false pretext.

Answer 2

In my humble opinion most businesses are into selling their product to make money. And healtchcare insurance companies are not any different. They're in there to make money from their so called clients just like how almost everyone of us works a job to bring home the bread - that's the bottomline.

I think that these insurance companies that Moore featured in his film are taking advantage of that fact that healthcare is not universal in this country. They try to squeeze every dime they possibly could for their own pockets. Because if it was universal in this country it would be very regulated as far as what they are suppose to do versus that they choose not to do. The law may state that everyone is entitled to treatment but since everyone isn't covered they can pick and choose who they can treat based upon if that client is able to pay back the overcharged medical bill

Taking the side of healthcare, I think the ones who could be trusted are the front runners, the doctors, nurses, lvn's, technicians etc. They're the ones who probably went into the profession wanting to genuinely help. The paper pushers managing them....well that's another story =)

To me I'm leaning towards the side of Moore although I find that taking his side completely is a bit to extreme. Go universal healthcare!!

Answer 3

If you are talking about the film documentary Sicko.

Then I'll give it to you straight.

Well I have have seen it.
And so have many other Europeans, Like myself!
And every time we talk about it over here we don't know whether to laugh or cry!

Are you guys serious! when you talk about socialized-medicine. what's up old ronnie (Nixon's puppy) still running in your heads.

You're the only western country that does NOT provided a free, 100% cover health service.
In England and Italy like all others, we have both state and private health care and we don't pay more tax than you.

Our doctors earn less I'll grant you that but they don't complain.
In fact they live well and so do the people.

Come on wake up and smell the coffee!

Greed is devouring your nation.

And making you look like fools in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Have you no pride?

Sorry it's your county do as you like, but please don't try to sell your idea of democracy to the rest of the world!

Ok that's my point, hate me for saying it if you will.
But those who open their eyes and minds and look around will thank the likes of me!!

Answer 4

I wonder if Michael Moore has the same assumptions when he goes to a buffet?

"How can a for-profit buffet allow me to eat all I want when they want to make a profit?"

Private business finds ways to keep expenses down, because they can't just go to congress and ask for more money next year...whether they provide great service or not, like a government run industry. Businesses find that happy medium where the consumer gets a good product, and the business makes a profit. That's how it's supposed to be.

I still don't know how a private business makes a profit selling a buffet meal to Michael Moore.

Part 2: I had insurance up to 2003, when I went into business for myself. I have a pacemaker, and noooobody wanted to insure me privately. I had lots of phone offers, as well as fax offers...but when they found out about the pacemaker, they did lose interest. Here's what I did for several years. I saved money, sort of like making payments to an insurance company, but to a "rainy day account" and when I got sick, I paid directly for the service. What I was frequently asked by physicians was "do you have insurance?" I'd say "no". And they'd give me the freebie medication samples to keep my costs down. Now, on the last visit to the pacemaker clinic, they said my battery is down to 11 months. The cost of paying for the procedure and pacemaker is very expensive, and actually hard to just negotiate up front. I decided to keep my business open on a part-time basis, and go to work for an employer that had group insurance. I'm going to stay with the employer until I get a new pacemaker, then say "thanks and adios". I suppose that if I was able to do these things, other people could too. Honestly, if not for the pacemaker, I'd rather keep my own system going, and I will, for about 11 more years.

Answer 5

the two one in each and every of them are very principled. i've got have been given no longer caught the two in any super, glaring lies. And in extremely some techniques they are the two on the comparable section. complication-unfastened human beings, even people who actual disagree, share extra advantageous effective than you will possibly be able to think of of. inspite of the undeniable fact that the priority is that the two Moore and Paul are professionals--extra advantageous a liberal, Paul a libertarian. So it would desire to be like an ophthalmologist and a coronary heart expert stepping authentic right into a debate over the pancreas.

Answer 6

Michael Moore is a propagandist; just like nearly all film makers. Who says films, documentaries or otherwise, are supposed to be balanced. M.M. raises some excellent points in "Sicko" and his other films. Anyone who thinks that going to one of his movies is going to hear/see Moore side with Bush and his ilk, or the other neo-cons who believe personal freedoms out weigh all other considerations on the planet, will be sorely disappointed. "Sicko" is a good piece; sure it pisses off a lot of people. But why do you think he made it? It raises questions that politicians in America are scared to answer. In my mind, that is what makes a good film maker. I could care less what his political stripes are. It is fact: people who live in countries with established and state funded universal health care systems are healthier, live longer, have heavier and healthier babies, do not have a large segment of their populations doing whacked out home remedies and autosurgeries, and pay little or nothing to stay in the hospital.

The United States has not reached a level in their development as a nation to accept "radical" views. For many Americans "socialized" medicine means socialism aka communism aka totalitarianism which leads to the end of individual freedoms. It is a ridiculous line of thinking but it pops up time again on this site. It is really something to see how narrow minded many answerers can be.

Answer 7

Yes I saw Sicko. We'll heres my take on it. Everything that I saw in his movie is not a shock to me. I knew what to expect. But personally I think that health insurance is not the biggest issue we face in our country. Yes its a problem that need to be addressed but I am upset about how we treat the mentally ill and the homeless in our country. Our social services do not work in our country. I didn't like Michael Moores movie cuz in the end people who get really sick end up quitting their jobs and get health insurance through the Welfare system. SO they end up getting everything paid for anyways. In a way we have free health insurance too. They also are not allowed to deny care to anybody so whats the problem? Yes people are entitled to free health care but are homeless and mentally not enetitled to jobs? (because they really do want to work but won't be hired) Are they not entitled to social servies that works? A mentally ill person might have good health insurance but that doesn't mean that they will get great health care in our country or the best cancer treatments? I get so mad that people think they are so above everybody else and think that they are entitled to everything! People want their cake and eat it too!

Answer 8

I say private insurance for healthcare issues and Michael Moore for making funny movies like "Canadian Bacon" where Alan Alda plays Bill Clinton and invades Canada to get a boost in the opinion polls.

For-profit companies had better have the patients best interests because the healthcare industry is competitive and if people are not happy with their coverage they can go buy healthcare coverage from another competitor.

If socialized medicine works so well, why do we have so many patients from Canada, Britain, Brazil, et al. coming here for their healthcare? It is because when you socialize, you take competition and the forces of creative destruction out of the healthcare picture. Healthcare has no incentive to improve or expand capacity, so patients in need are not served in those systems and must go elsewhere for healthcare.

Answer 9

Neither. Moore leaves out the problems associated with socialized medicine in an effort to convince the viewer, but he does show many of the failings of our current health care system.

Private health care has a major problem that undermines the market system. You have to use it. This essentially infinite demand allows them to basically charge whatever they want, and instead of competing, their competitors see this and copy it to reap the benefits.

Public health care would be of lower quality as it would not attract as many or the best people due to lower salaries, but would be available to all. Additionally, there would be much longer wait times. Then there's the cost, and the fact most Americans aren't willing to pay for it.

Answer 10

Socialized medicine is flawed because it establishes a monopoly and forces people who may not even use it to pay for it. A private sytem is superior because it has many alternative providers that compete with each other to provide the best service at the lowest possible cost, also, it operates on a user-pays basis which means people are not compelled to pay for others and there cannot be free-riders. Michael Moore is the kind of person the world could do without.