Was South Vietnam ever a legitimate State?

Question

I have studied the Vietnam War immensely, especially in college where I composed an honors thesis on the subject. I have come to the conclusion that South Vietnam was never a politically viable State. By that I mean a government who retains a plurality of support from its people and a military capable of defending itself. In addition, South Vietnam was never a legitimate democracy.

Is there anyone who cares to counter my claim?

Can anyone provide evidence that South Vietnam was recognized as a legitimate government by a plurality of its citizens? Keep in mind that all of the elections conducted by S.V. were dubious, so election results don't count.

Can anyone provide evidence that the South Vietnamese military was capable of defending itself against a VC/NVA/NLF attack? That means WITHOUT the assistance of American ground and air forces.

Sorry, but I have to take issue with Agent 86.

As difficult as it was for Americans to accept, the communists were overwhelmingly popular in South Vietnam. In fact, Dwight Eisenhower himself acknowledged that if the elections, mandated by the Geneva Accords, were to have taken place, Ho Chi Minh would have won with upwards of 80% of the vote.

Hence, this is why South Vietnam was so difficult to defend. The Government didn't exist outside of Saigon.

Answer 1

Was there a functional government? Yes.

Did other nations recognize South Vietnam and exchange ambassadors? Yes.

A nation is defined as a politically organized body of people under a single government. Where it comes from and just how it came about aren't part of the definition. Certainly in 1948 Israel would not have been considered a politically viable state. Had the 1975 Paris Accords not been violated by an external invasion South Vietnam exist today

As for the "plurality of support from its people" by inaction consent may be given. Turn the question around show proof that plurality of the North's people supported that government. Given the support and aid from China and the USSR world the North have been considered a viable government?

Was Iraq campable of defending against an American attack? You include the North Vietnamese Army with it's Russian and Chinese support in questioning the ARVN capabilities. How long would the VC have lasted without NVA? As I recall, after the Tet Offensive, the VC were effectivly subordinate to the NVA.

An apt comparison to the issue would be North and South Korea. Both were created from a colonial occupation, separated politically, had a war that they are still fighting and so on.Certainly the Republic would at the beginning not met your requirements. Yet today the Republic is one of the four tigers and a very functional nation.

Answer 2

Good point, but I think the majority of citizens in South Vietnam would of rather lived in a " dubious Democracy" than a Communist state.
I agree that the S. Vietnamese army was incapable of defending itself without help, but that doesn't make it a " llegitimate democracy ". The North had help also.

Edit
I thought , when Eisenhower was President, alot of the Communist in the South went North and Catholics in the North ( wanting a Democracy) went South.
If it was still at 80%, in 1968, I think the North would of had enough help to win the Tet Offensive militarily.

Answer 3

In October, 1955, the South Vietnamese people were asked to choose between Bao Dai, the former Emperor of Vietnam, and Ngo Dinh Diem for the leadership of the country. Colonel Edward Lansdale suggested that Diem should provide two ballot papers, red for Diem and green for Bao Dai. Lansdale hoped that the Vietnamese belief that red signified good luck whilst green indicated bad fortune, would help influence the result.

When the voters arrived at the polling stations they found Diem's supporters in attendance. One voter complained afterwards: "They told us to put the red ballot into envelopes and to throw the green ones into the wastebasket. A few people, faithful to Bao Dai, disobeyed. As soon as they left, the agents went after them, and roughed them up... They beat one of my relatives to pulp."

After the election Diem informed his American advisers that he had achieved 98.2 per cent of the vote. They warned him that these figures would not be believed and suggested that he published a figure of around 70 per cent. Diem refused and as the Americans predicted, the election undermined his authority.

Like you said, the elections were rigged. China and France ruled them most of the time and noone had any confidence in anyone who wanted to rule the country.

I don't think they could have beaten the VC without American assistance. The people in the South looked just like the people in the North so they didn't know who to trust for sure. They weren't trained in fighting and the Communists helped the North. At that time Communism was the biggest scare in the world.

Answer 4

You got it right no one can counter your claim. To bad the government never learned from it's mistakes, if they had our brave troops would not be dying today in Iraq.

door gunner D troop 3/5 air cav Viet Nam 68/69