Do you think it is proper for the government to dictate to a church?

Question

Do you think it is proper for the government to dictate to a church which weddings they may legally perform? Some churches have decided that until same-sex partners can have a civil wedding ceremony in the church, they will not hold any wedding ceremonies at all. http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2007/12/14/1

Answer 1

Where is the part about the government telling the churches what to do or not do?

There is a difference between a civil marriage and a religious one. They are not even close to the same thing although they use the same word.

You can do either one with or without the other. they are independent concepts although they usually happen at about the same time and end at about the same time.

Bully for these churches for being among the first to recognize that and for engaging in a little civil disobedience.

Expect more of this sort of thing, it is inevitable....

Answer 2

The government must never interfere with the church, except of course in cases where there may have been criminal behavior going on. Even so, churches have the right to say what rituals they will or will not perform. The government cannot compel any religious body to solemnize marriages. The problem here is that since clergypersons are permitted under the law to solemnize marriages they are, in fact, acting as agents of the state. This is wrong. The state does indeed have a legitimate interest in marriage. My belief is that if people want to get married then let them go to city hall and do that. If they want a church wedding, then they can have that religious rite after the civil ceremony. This system is followed almost universally in Europe and it's worked quite well for a very long time. In the european way the clergy are not agents of the state; thus the separation between church and state is kep very clear indeed. In the US we have muddied the waters big time about this.

Answer 3

There is a legal aspect to marriage. The church wedding is a ceremonial function, not a legal one. The legality of a wedding is dictated by laws, not the government. Churches that decide not to conduct any weddings at all because they want gay weddings are idiotic to say the least. This is a case of a church trying to dicate to government, not the other way around. All government has to do is to revoke the church's tax exempt status to get the point across. Most churches have really bad attitudes anyway.

Answer 4

Each state has its own statutory requirements on how to marry. Those who follow the requirements are married.

Marriage is a civil function, solemnization of which is vested in certain people by statute. To some, it is also a religious rite.

When people have their marriage solemnized by a clergymember, they are essentially taking part in a religious ceremony which (hopefully) also meets the civil requirements to cause the couple to be married. It saves a couple having to have a church AND civil wedding.

If the church wants to have a religious rite and pronounce a couple married in the eyes of the Church, that's fine. The First Amendment covers that. Unless they meet the statutory guidelines, however, the couple is unmarried in the eyes of the law. If the priest signs a marriage license that a same-sex couple somehow obtained, he does so at his peril. He's no longer acting just as a priest, he's acting as an agent of the state.

Short version: States are not dictating to a church which weddings may legally perform. States are saying "if you solemnize a marriage outside the statutory scheme, we won't honor it."

P.S. I am utterly in favor of gay marriage. Fine with me, without reservation. I'm just looking at this legally.

Answer 5

Doesn't matter what I think, it is unconstitutional....

In the scenario you cite, the government is not dictating what the church can or cannot do. It is the church's right to have the ceremony...It is the government's right to recognize the union or not, based on it's own, secular criteria.

Now if someone sued the Catholic Church to force them to perform same-sex marriages and the court agreed to hear the case....that WOULD be an infringement and improper.

Answer 6

No, the government cannot tell a church what weddings it can and cannot perform. A church is free to marry anyone they want. However, the government is not obligated to recognize those marriages or provide marriage benefits.

Answer 7

The government is not dictating to the churches. Many churches hold gay wedding ceremonies. The government just doesn't acknowledge that marriage.

Answer 8

maybe we should go back to the old ways -- until the 15th century or so, any heterogenous couple who claimed to be married were considered married by both the church and state.

Of course, neither permitted divorce and Heaven help you if you were discovered to have more than one marriage partner.

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More seriously, afaic, the churches can do whatever they want on the subject of marriage. However, none of them has the right to tell the government what "marriages" the government will or won't recognize.

Answer 9

The government can't and shouldn't prevent the ceremony.

The government does not have to recognize the marriage.

Answer 10

it cost alot to get married anyway....the rings, the wedding gowns...2 brides maids...plus tax wise you lose some benefits...anybody can be named in a will or other legal documents so the gov is probably doing you a favor