Can my husband do this?

Question

I really really don't want our son circumsized, but my husband who was raised in israel & has Jewish beliefs really wants it done.I originally was going to do it but when I saw my perfect baby boy, i couldn't imagine making him go through surgery for no reason! I've done a ton of reasearch and I am 1 million percent sure that I am making the right desicion.Problem is.....My husband said he will take my son and get it done behind my back, can he really do this? Advice please!

Answer 1

Not legally he can't. He could do it and take it to a Rabbi or somebody, but Rabbis and doctors I think can't legally do it if one custodial parent objects. If they don't know you object, and they have the father's consent, then they might do it. If you are really scared you can send out letters to doctors etc. in your area saying that if your son is brought in, you don't want him circumcised. Or make stickers for your son's nappies saying not to circumcise!

You are making the right decision by not wanting him circumcised and you can still respect your husband's religious beliefs - his religious belifs should not extend to the permanent body modification of another person! Your son is an individual and can make his own choice, it would be more meaningful if he did decide to convert to Judaism or something and got circumcised then.

I can't believe some of the answers you got - there is nothing unhygienic about being left in the natural state. Don't pull the foreskin back, wash the outside, he can clean it when he's a teen. Rates are dropping and even in the US now it's 50% cut 50% not so he won't be teased. Most uncircumcised guys, including my boyfriend, never get an infection, never get teased, never choose to get it done later, and are happy they have all their parts.

I am sorry you are having this issue but your husband has no right to do that to your son! And don't let anybody talk you into getting it done later on for "medical issues" either. Good luck stay strong.

Answer 2

That's a tough one...
It might depend on your state and the laws about legal custody and marriage.
Do you watch Desperate Housewives? A couple episodes ago this came up (only it was the other way around)
The father sent letters to every hospital and pediatrician saying not to do it and he would get an attorney if they did.
The mother ended up getting it done at her friend's bris though...
I would try writing a letter, making a bunch of copies and sending it everywhere in a three state radius. Anything you have to do to spare your baby :-(
I'm sorry you're going through this

OK now I read all the answers too-
A previous answerer is right- he's Jewish but you're not- making your son also not Jewish.
Also, I really love when people say it hurts more at 15 or whatever. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Seriously. It hurts more? NO. They may complain about it more because- THEY CAN TALK. How stupid.
If you cut off a part of a baby's penis and they're constantly PEEING on it- it will hurt. A LOT. I don't care how old they are.
And yes, most male babies are being circ'd. 57% and dropping. So that's also a silly thing to say. 43% is no low number, IMO
You're doing what's right for your son. You're protecting him. That's your job as a mother.
Good for you!!!!

Answer 3

Ms Rahi, if i could give multiple thumbs-up I would. You are 100% right about this, it should have been brought up long ago, and he was obviously not concerned about his "religious beliefs" to marry outside without batting a lash, to turn around and use his beliefs now, to get this is quite shameful.

Now that said. I was born a "non Jew" to a non Jewish mother. My (Jewish) father re-married a Jewish woman, and as I got older they became more immersed in Judaism. Obviously when I was born my father was not so "into" Judaism... And I converted to Judaism as a pre-teen due to my father and step-mother's renewed interest in Judaism, my need to feel "part of the group" pressure from the family and community, blah blah blah, I did have 3 chances to back down but was so convinced doing it was right for Others that I did not make the right decision for Myself, and thought sacrificing my beliefs (that there is no One Religion), would somehow placate my parents and make them proud of me. Plus the guilt factor, what 13 year old wants to be guilted forever "Oh you could've had such a LOVELY bat-mitzvah, but Nuuuuu... you have to go and turn your back on The Holy One, may He not strike you down for your foolishness Ptt Ptt"

moral of the story, I grew up, had a baby, and did not have him circumcised. My Jewish father told me that the Holy One would have a problem with my son, and I told him basically well, the Holy One will have to have a problem with Me on this issue, as it's not my son's decision at this point, whether he is circumcised or not. If he feels it in his heart that circumcision is the way to go, he is more than welcome to do it as a legal, consenting adult.






(just as I likely wouldn't have converted, if given the option to do so as an adult instead of a minor. but techincally I am in it for good now, and can no longer be "not Jewish", just an apostate. Personally I don't like being bound by a covenant I do not agree with, so I can imagine a circumcised adult having a problem with his genital state, should he decide he does not want to be a part of that religion.)



I would not allow my partner, my family or anyone else to use religion to bully me into any decision. Again, you can "deal with it when you face The One" and take it as your own personal decision, I know if there is a god and I have to face him/her, I will be the one to accept responsibility. I don't see how a parent's decision should even remotely affect a child's relationship with god, if that is what your child desires, he will find a way to make that relationship right. If that includes a "ritual" circumcision performed when he's 18, then he will have that option.






He really can do this, because a secular doctor will only need one parent's signature. *EDIT* I am going to make sure I'm correct here actually. I'm not sure if it can be done if you object. I'm guessing you would have to be there to object though. I'll add more later.

However, I would be very concerned about this issue, and hope you discuss this seriously, and show him that EVEN THE JEWS are re-thinking this whole circumcision thing... Out with the Brit Milah, In with the Brit Shalom!!

Answer 4

Well, let's see. He broke with tradition by just marrying you since you are apparently not Jewish either. In saying that, he shouldn't insist so strongly on having it done (hypocracy?) although the procedure is better done at this early age. Unfortunately, his beliefs will assume the final decision with this one more than likely. It's dreadful and you'll think your son is having convulsions afterwards, but they soon go to sleep and there doesn't seem to be any further trauma from it. It is cleaner and could spare him pain and embarassment years down the road when he WILL remember and the healing process takes longer with more risk of infection.

You should have discussed this with him before having children.

That's some pretty serious stuff to be arguing over...anything related to someone's deep rooted religion. Born and raised in Israel means culture clash too.

Instead of him going behind your back (which is deceptive and wrong), just go with him to have it done so you can be there to comfort your child in the moments afterwards and it doesn't create a lasting rift between the two of you.

Good luck, sweetie!!

Edit: Spree has an excellent point about the vaccines!! I have two kids and believe me, the "going to get shots at the doctor's" has been much more of an upsetting issue than the circumcision ever was...

Well put Ms. Rahi.

Answer 5

Oh, yes. He can go behind your back and get this done in a religious ceremony. I would sit down with him and talk to him and try to find a compromise. I, too, am married to someone from another culture with different beliefs and we have to talk about our beliefs and convictions. Where we can we try to find a middle ground. When we can't we try to compromise and we try to understand why the other feels the way they do. Perhaps if your DH could explain why it's so important to him, you could see why he wants this to be done (plus it's not uncommon that dads like their sons to look like them).

I'm sure you'll find a compromise that you'll both be happy with.

Edit : Ms Rahi - you're right. And thank you for your post! I've always found the Jewish religion "reasonable" despite what you hear to the contrary. You're absolutely right and you've armed this poster with some very valuable information. I think she's going to get her way! Lol :^)

Answer 6

You need to discuss these things before you get married & have babies! You are both going to have to sit down & talk about it and come to some sort of compromise. You can't ask your husband to go against his beliefs though...doing that can really hurt a marriage.
I would think that most hospitals require consent from both parents prior to surgical procedures, i doubt it would be easy for him to go out and do it on his own.

Answer 7

Ms. Rahi is correct. You can even call a rabbi or mohel and ask them. Don't mention circumcision, because obviously they'll try to convince you otherwise (they could be a little biased). Rather, focus on the basis that your husband is trying to use. Your husband thinks that your son is Jewish, when in fact, he's not if you're not. Tell the rabbi or mohel that you're not Jewish and you're not converting, and they'll confirm that. Now, in real life, yeah, he could go behind your back (like to a doctor) and get him circumcised, but if he does that, what is that showing in this relationship? That your opinion doesn't matter? That he doesn't trust you and thinks he's more important all the time? That's pretty significant to do.

Either way, I wrote the following for another mother having trouble deciding (and she ultimately decided against). I know you've already made up your mind, but I see answers here that aren't up to date, and also, the links might help you put up a good argument with your husband if he brings it up.

I'm against infant circumcision. By leaving your son uncircumcised, if he's not satisfied with it he can always get cut and end up satisfied in the end. One survey found that about half of circumcised guys would have preferred to had made the decision themselves:
http://www.jackinworld.com/qow/q15.html

Circumcision has become less common. Circumcision rates were as high as 90% back in the 1960s and 1970s (that's partly why today's adults are so... brainwashed, I supposed you could say, about thinking that circumcision is better) but they have fallen to as low as 14% in some states. Here are the statistics:
http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/staterates2004/

The USA is the last developed nation doing it to a large number of newborns without religious or medical needs. (Europeans, Latin Americans, Japanese, and most Australians, Canadians, and Asians don't circumcise):
http://www.circumstitions.com/Maps.html

Christianity doesn't ask for circumcision, either. In fact, sections of the Bible are harsh against circumcision, and the Catholic Church even condemned the surgery:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision_in_the_Bible#In_Christianity

In a medical study, it was found that females are more likely to hit orgasm with an uncircumcised man:
http://www.healthcentral.com/drdean/408/60750.html

The lubricated foreskin (on the inside... like your eyelids) slides up and down during sex and masturbation to stimulate the head (which is why you don't hear of uncircumcised guys needing lube to masturbate).
http://www.cirp.org/pages/anat/

Studies have found that circumcision reduces sensitivity (this article also mentions how it has lost popularity in the USA in recent times):
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,285532,00.html

And despite being more sensitive, uncircumcised guys still last in the same six minute range (average) that circumcised guys do:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2005.00070.x

Circumcision makes masturbation more difficult:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06646.x

Which makes sense, that's how circumcision was promoted in the USA:
http://english.pravda.ru/science/health/27-03-2006/77873-circumcision-0

Increases erectile dysfunction rates:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14979200&dopt=Abstract%7C

If too much skin is removed in circumcision, it can make the penis smaller since the penis needs some skin to expand during an erection:
http://drgreene.org/body.cfm?id=21&action=detail&ref=1125
http://www.altermd.com/Penis%20and%20Scrotal%20Surgery/buried_penis.htm

There's pain involved, often why doctors don't want you in the room when it's done:
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9712/23/circumcision.anesthetic/
http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/1f21e.htm
(you can search online for a circumcision video, too)

Circumcision does not completely stop penile cancer. The American Cancer Society has already confirmed the myth that circumcision = no cancer.
http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_2X_Can_penile_cancer_be_prevented_35.asp

If circumcision did stop penile cancer, then penile cancer would not be more common in the USA (most circumcised adults) than in some European nations, where circumcision is not practiced other than for medical/religious reasons.
http://www.circumstitions.com/Cancer.html

And a new study found that circumcision does not reduce your chances to get HIV/AIDS. Unlike other studies, this one was done in a developed nation; the USA.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22096758/

Of course, there are other risks associated, but those are typically the ones due to surgery. You can research it more here:
http://shorl.com/deprygyfrykiny
http://www.mothering.com/articles/new_baby/circumcision/against-circumcision.html

PS. As far as cleaning goes, it's really simple. For the first years in life the foreskin doesn't pull back. That prevents stuff like poo/fecal matter from touching the head. Later on all it takes it 5 to 10 seconds to pull the foreskin back and rub the head; it even feels good.
http://www.mothering.com/articles/new_baby/circumcision/protect-uncircson.html

Answer 8

It sounds like you need to get together and have a serious talk. You both have to come to an conclusion together since it's both your child and you both have different beliefs. You need to consider that it's your husbands religious beliefs and he needs to consider that you don't want to put your son through a surgery that isn't required.
I plan on circumsizing my son, but that's a personal opinion.

Since it's a medical procedure they just need one guardian/parent's consent so I believe he could really have it done without your permission, but have a talk with him to come to a conclusion before it comes to that.

Answer 9

I am not a lawyer, but since circumcision is a medical procedure and usually done by doctors, they only need one parent's permission. I personally feel the same way that you do, but my husband is not Jewish, so I am not in your shoes.

If you were not married and you had sole, legal custody, it might be a different story.

Answer 10

Please tell your husband I said that doing something behind your back that was is a lousy idea as it's totally disrespectful of you and of the marriage.

What I want to tell YOU, is that I am a million percent sure that YOU have made the WRONG decision.

I noticed in the 1980's that choosing to not circumcise was gaining in popularity. In some cultures, it's the norm. In the Jewish religion it's an important religious belief, and refusing to have your son circumcised on your part shows a serious lack of respect for your husband and his religious beliefs.

Your baby boy will NOT be less "perfect" if circumcised.

Your baby boy WILL be at a much higher risk of recurrent infections if NOT circumcised. Parents have to clean the folds that circumcision removes VERY carefully to prevent urinary tract infections caused by what's captured in the folds. It can be cleaned adequately, but it's important and it's a risk to your baby.

From a woman's standpoint, my studies taught me that the circumcision creates a skin ridge that enhances enjoyment in his future sex life.

The surgery is NOT for "no reason". It's a cleanliness and infection prevention issue. The Jewish religion teaches it as a religious belief, but I personally believe that belief was based on the health issues.

The bottom line is that this is an important issue.

You both are hurting your marriage by your not coming to a JOINT agreement on this.

You are wrong to not respect his religious beliefs.
He is wrong to threaten to sneak out and do it behind your back.

His threat tells you how important this religious belief is to him.

Your claim of being 1 million percent sure after a "ton of research" that not circumcising is right, tells me you haven't researched ALL sides of the issue well at all.

You need to understand that, when a baby boy is circumcised, he cries, not because he is in pain, but because he's being restrained.

If you do what I hope you will do and get your baby circumcised, there is one more question I have. Does your husband want the baby circumcised at a Jewish Bris? This is the Jewish ceremony for circumcision and the baby is circumcised by an experienced Rabbi. This is another thing you two need to discuss if you accept his request to have the baby circumcised.

Ms. Rahi, I also appreciate your input and I accept your corrections to my comments as you are obviously the expert in this group of respondents.

Personally, I do believe in circumcision. I also find it amazing how strident and antagonistic the anti-circumcision believers have become.

And I commend all who said you two should have discussed this and other religious BOTH:
- before the marriage
- before the pregnancy
- before the delivery
and you should have made sure you could come to an agreement on these important issues long before now.