Why should Bonds or Clemens go to the Hall of Fame if Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson cant?

Question

Pete Rose, yes he gambled on baseball, but he be on his own team, not against them, and he did what he did as a manager, not a player, so that does not taint his playing career.

Shoeless Joe Jackson was never proved to have thrown the 1919 World Series. Yes, he did take the gamlbers money, BUT he hit .375 with 6 double, 1 Homerun and 6 RBI's in the 8 games and was the only member of the team aside from Buck Weaver who produced numbers.

What Clemens, Bonds, Pettite, Sheffield, Sosa, McGwire and the rest of these clowns did, is way worse in my mind.

Answer 1

The answer will tell us all if the war on drugs is a real war or another false war. And for all of us that are parents, teachers, or other people in contact with young people who give the stay off drugs message, are we just wasting our time?

Answer 2

The main thing here is the writers cast their votes and probably won't look favorably on Bonds and Clemens. Pete Rose was banned for life just like Shoeless Joe Jackson and unless the Commisioner lifts that ban, can't go to the Hall. Jackson has been deceased since 1951 so should be eligible as of course his life is over. Ted Williams and I think Bob Feller have argued on his behalf and I agree that at least Shoeless Joe should be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

Answer 3

if what Jackson allegedly did altered the outcome of a World Series, what about all these Yankee players? Were they on 'roids during a World Series, providing them an edge over their opponents? Did Pettitte pitch any playoff or World Series games when he was allegedly taking steroids? Clemens? If yes, was that an unfair advantage? Cheating? And if yes, then how is it not comparable to what Jackson and the 1919 Sox did or allegedly did? They threw games to lose for money but did players of this era power up during key and crucial games to win for money, trophies and greater glory? If they did, then they are no better than the 1919 Chicago Black Sox.

Answer 4

Hmmmm. Tough call. Shoeless Joe was supposedly involved in throwing the World Series. Kind of a no-no. I think he doesn't belong, but Rose is different. I wouldn't mind seeing him in the Hall of Fame, but his character is just so phony. He's lied to the public so much since his playing days ended. Why trust him? There's more proof to suggest that he bet on baseball than there is to suggest he's telling the truth. I'd say neither belong in.

Answer 5

Two totally different subjects and not related to each other. Gambling is the single biggest taboo in baseball and there is no second chances, you do it and your gone. That is the only way you can maintain the integrity of the game. The use of drugs and its penalties falls under the MLB/Players Union agreement and is enforced accordingly. I believe all the players on the list never tested positive for any of the banned drugs after the implementation of the drug policy in 2002. So even if MLB intends to enforce a penalty they would only be looking at a 15 day suspension, at most. There is nothing in the drug policy agreement that says if you are caught you lose your illegibility for the HOF. I know you are a fan of the game and realize your simple question has a very complex answer.

Answer 6

Hall policy.

No amount of arguing makes any difference. The Hall recognizes MLB's ineligible list as its own.

I realize the Jackson sycophants don't like hearing this, but do compare his stats in the four clean games against those in the four thrown games. It is too small an amount of data to prove anything, but it doesn't make him look better.

Thrown games (#1, 2, 4, 5): 4-16, .250, two singles, two doubles, one run, zero RBI.

Clean games (#3, 6, 7, 8): 8-16, .500, six singles, one double, one HR, one walk, 4 runs, 6 RBI.

How Rose laid his bets is irrelevant, and Manager Rose is indivisible from Player Rose. The Hall honors a person, not a job, and such honor should not be conferred -- should not even be CONSIDERED to be conferred -- upon someone in disgrace.

Answer 7

First of all, I believe 100% that Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe should be put in the hall of fame. They might have broken the rules, but they did nothing to make themselves better. What these guys are doing is making themselves better. Its like a power up that guys back then didn't have access to. What they did, and I guess i have to include Clemens, though i dont want to, is much worse than gambling whether it was for or against your team gambling doesn't make you better. Steroids do.

Answer 8

I agree with you. We persecuted Rose and Jackson for years and now we honor these fools on drugs and God only knows what their other crimes may be.
There is something so very wrong with all sports today.
There are no heroes. There are only amoral people chasing the dollar.
One has to wonder why the commissioner didn't do something years ago. I cannot be convinced this has been a well kept secret. I also cannot be convinced that baseball stands alone in all of this.
In my mind's little eye I recall the pic of Shaquille O'Neal on the cover of SI when he first came to LSU - he was almost as wide as a strand of spaghetti - and boy, has he bulked up.
It won't change until the fans stop buying tickets. We do have power.

Answer 9

What Rose and Jackson did is unfixable, it is the worst of the worst. It does not matter who you bet on or if you really threw games the fact that you were involved in gambling in anyway threatens the integrity of the game. If you believe that Rose "only bet on games when he was a Manager" then I have ocean front property in North Dakota for you! He was a huge gambler in his playing days and to me there is no way that he suddenly got an epiphany when he was a manager that he could bet on the games his team was in.

As far as the cheaters of today, yes they cheated, they used something to enhance their performance but it was well known to the Commissioner and to the Owners, they choose to ignore it and created an environment that encouraged this to increase interest in their sport, more Homers means more revenue! Gambling and PED's are like comparing apples to hand grenades.

Answer 10

They shouldn't, and any records that they set should be removed from the books.

And for the people that say that shoeless Joe was guilty, he had nothing to do with the fix of the series. That is why the movie is called Eight Men Out, and not Nine Men Out!

The Hall of Fame is for people that deserve to be honored, not cheaters. However, there needs to be some evidence that they actually did the performance enhancing drugs.

Answer 11

Absolutely not. They all cheated - but in different ways. And they all disgraced the game in some way. If Clemens and Bonds do get in, it would be only fair to let Rose and Shoeless Joe in as well. I personally think they should not be in the Hall of Fame.