At what point do you consider that WW2 was irretrievably lost by the Germans?

Question

Stalingrad in 1943 is often regarded as the turning point in WW2 for the Germans. Do you agree with this? tactically, could they have snatched a total victory any later than this?

Answer 1

To address some previous suggestions:

By D-Day, the Germans were pretty much licked. They had lost the Battle of the Atlantic, were on the run in the East and were losing oil/metal etc. etc. reserves fast.

Secondly, the USA didn't declare war on Germany before Germany declared war on the USA, whilst the Lend-Lease Act had pretty much brought what the USA had to offer - its industrial might - into the war anyway.

Thirdly, Hitler could still have won the war despite the Battle of Britain. The British Army was still fairly weak in the spring of '41 and Mussolini's entry into the war was tying up large numbers of Britons. Even as late as 1942 (perhaps especially in 1942, given the large amounts of troops and equipment hurriedly diverted from Europe to the Far East with Japan's entry into the war), an admittedly costly (in terms of men and material) military operation could have helped knock the United Kingdom out of the war. Whilst the United States may have pursued a war, it would have been a lot easier for Germany to secure a negotiated peace on favourable terms with the exit of the United Kingdom from the war and the resultant ability of Japanese forces to turn on the USA in the Far East and German forces to turn on Russia.

I would argue that one of two event was the key turning point. The first is El Alamein. The Commonwealth victory at Alamein stopped Rommel from seizing Egypt, Suez and the oilfields of the Middle East beyond: the latter of which was crucial to the war effort (whilst its capture would've negated, whilst Suez - and Axis dominance of the Med - could have been put to good use in helping to ship plans, codes, parts etc. to Japan.

The second is the Battle of the Atlantic. There's no real date for this but suffice to say that, without the Battle of the Atlantic being won by the Allies, US involvement in the European theatre would have been severely limited, whilst the UK wouldn't have been able to get the necessary imported foodstuffs and produce upon which she depended in part. Had Germany succeeded in winning the Battle by 1942 or even 1943, she would have been able to cripple the European war.

Answer 2

The German defeat can be traced back to various points obviously Stalingrad was a major influence on the out come,as was the battle of the Atlantic,Battle of Britain certainly provided the Allies with the territory to fight back,El Alamein was also significant but I would suggest that the defeat at the battle of Kursk in July 1943 was the point of no return for the Germans in the East as from that point on they were pretty much in full retreat fighting all the way back the the Suburbs of Berlin but then again you could say that the destruction of the Luftwaffe was also extremely significant I think when Mustangs were seen flying over Berlin Herman Goering knew the game was up..so tactically could they have snatched victory any later than late ´43 probably not although the Ardennes offencive in December 1944 might, had it succeeded have resulted in some sort of truce that they might have perceived as a victory of sorts but even then the Red Army probably could n´t or wouldn´t have been halted.

Answer 3

The Germans lost the War June 1940, again in July 1941 and finally in December 1941 after that time they had no hope of winning.
Reason.
June 1940 failure to stop BEF from evacuating to England
July 1941 Attacking the USSR without defeating or coming to terms with the British first
December 1941 declaring war on the USA when the Americans had no cause to declare against the Germans.

After that time there was no possible turning from Defeat, the growing might of the 3 main enemies would out strip the Germans in manpower, Industrial Might and Technology.

Yes the Axis powers where able to keep initative for another 12 months due to the defeats in the Pacific theatre causing diversion of resources, but once the forces out there had been shored up then the steady increase of forces into the Western and Eastern theatres proved too much for the German war effort to match and defeat.

Answer 4

I think the Germans were tactically beat on Jan 2, 1943, when they were forced to withdraw from the Caucasus region. They had just been severely kicked in North Africa and the Caucasus was the only place left to get oil.

The surrender of Stalingrad a month later is certainly significant because the Germans chose to throw so many resources at it. The oil was the prize.

I don't think they had a ghost of a chance after Jan 2, a full week before the major Soviet offensive on Stalingrad began.

The only out was if the Germans had got to the A-bomb first. Goodbye, Red Square; so long, Picadilly...

Answer 5

Agree with person above that this was the Battle of Kursk - in terms of numbers and materiel, the greatest battle ever. It is debatable whether the Germans would have won the war, had they won this battle, given the Soviet power of recovery, but after it, the Germans never mounted another offensive (apart from the Bulge, which was achieved by stripping the eastern front of armour etc). Russian victory at Kursk ensured German defeat was inevitable.

Answer 6

Technically speaking, no. The German army in WWII consisted of several different sections, along with the paramilitary organizations like the SS and Gestapo. The "Nazis" were a political party- people who belonged to said political party were considered Nazis. However, a lot of people who signed up officially to be a party member were drafted into the army anyway. A lot of these people, however, didn't just do so because they wanted to be a Nazi- they probably wanted to protect their families, whether out of patriotic spirit or they didn't want to appear as any different or risk drawing attention to themselves. There was a lot of deception during WWII, and Germany was no exception... practically everything was propaganda then. No doubt during the war, to the Allied countries, just about any German could be considered a Nazi, and they usually only encountered soldiers.

Answer 7

STALINGRAD was the turning point,the loss of the 6th army was an insurmountable defeat.From then on the war of attrition in the East turned in favour of the red army,this coupled with the allies(mainly Britain) daily bombings of the german industrial heartland and cities,plus the impending D-DAY LANDINGS left the third reich in an ominous position,many of the young fighting men already killed,the end beckoned from STALINGRAD onwards The Ardennes offensive was really quite futile,though ambitious.

Answer 8

At the end of the Battle Of Britain.

If Hitler had taken Britain, America and Russia would have let him be master of Europe and not gotten involved.

Failing to knock Britain out of the war left the way open for the USA to keep providing supplies and become personally involved.

Also, the failure to knock Britain out of the War was the major factor in Hilter breaking the First Rule Of Warfare: Never March On Moscow.

As soon as he invaded the USSR, his fate was sealed.

Answer 9

Although Stalingrad was crucial I think the turning point was the Invasion of Normandy in June 1944.
Until then it was conceivable that the Germans could defend their eastern border by moving troops from the west but once they were fighting on two fronts they ran out of resources.

Answer 10

With 130 divisions engaged in the soviet union ,as opposed to just 30 in the west,its plain to see how serious hitler took the war in the east.
There are literally hundreds of factors that determined the collapse of of the German army on the Russian front over a period of months,but I would agree that the encirclement of 230000 german troops was the key to their ultimate defeat.

The freeing up of crack siberian troops guarding against Japanese invasion further east gave The red Army the decisive hammer blow necessary to crack the German 6th army.


After this defeat and steady withdrawal of german armies,hitler gambled that ,the western allies,faced with the greater threat of a communist domination of eastern and central europe,would join forces for the greater good.It is probably to the regret of many post war leaders and generals ,that we didnt do just that.