What is so degrading/disrespectful about chivalry?

Question

I would be mad too if someone took care of something because he automatically assumed I'm weak and unable to do it on my own. But I think even a 4-year old is able to open a door, so assumption of disability can't possibly be the reason a man opens the door. If he opens the door because he wants to get into my pants later, he will sooner or later realize it was a waste of door service, so he's the one who gets mad, not me.

I have ignored this topic because I thought it wasn't even worth discussing, but now the disrespect towards men who respect and take care of women by default (my dad being one of them), is getting to me. So the response to a respectful man who opens the door or give his jacket to a woman who is freezing (stranger or not) out of courtesey is "I don't need to put up with this...I don't need this," instead of a simple "thank you?" And you call yourselves respectful and wonder why men are mean?

Kessie: That's not the case. Most men over 30 continue to be courteous towards women in the every-day life. I can't imagine things varying so greatly state by state.

So help me understand the issue, please. Is it the fact that it's an old gender based tradition that makes it sinful, regardless of the fact that it's an act of kindness? So the purpose is to get rid of ALL old traditions? I'm just trying to understand the logic.

I don't think chivalry should be expected. No man is required to hold the door or pay by default, but if he CHOOSES to out of niceness, then I have nothing but appreciation for his act. And yes Blessed Rain, my ex husband is the same way because he's a respectful person, it's in his nature to be nice and kind, not because he is doing business and expects something in return or tries to degrade anyone.

Ellesar: I understand your point also.

Johno: And I do. Not to strangers tough LOL

TMD: Great points

Singular: Yes, many try to pull the "chivalry" card, but that's pretty easy to see through. All you have to do is to observe how he acts will ALL women around him, his mother, family and strangers included.

Answer 1

What can be jarring about chivalry are those men who do it in a condescending or superior manner. If a man wants recognition of his power to open that door and conduct you through, then it is annoying. When it fits the situation, then it works. Pushing a woman out of the way to open a door is stupid, but if you happen to be there first and notice she is there, it is a kind gesture. Leering at a woman as she passes through a door you are holding also negates the gesture. Those who do it out of respect are really just practicing good manners, and I expect good manners and respect from everyone. It isn't a sign of weakness in a man to be chivalrous, as someone said, real men are considerate and practice good manners. It is a strength, not a weakness.

Answer 2

Because chivalry happened at the same time as women not having the right to vote or own property, the two were seen as connected. I understand the theory that putting (some) women on a pedastal of spiritual and moral superiority, which went hand in hand with chivalry, was somehow a way to keep them from being upset that they had the rights of small children and not of men..... I just don't agree with it.

I don't think that the average middle-class man of, say, the Victorian times, was really thinking, "I can't believe my wife is falling for my pretend admiration! All I do is help her into the carriage, support her financially, avoid swearing in front of her..... and all the while, I really think of her as sub-human, and she has no idea!" I think he was showing her some respect and *real* admiration, and valued the woman who was to raise his children, as he valued his own mother and other women.

He may have assumed that women should be protected from the big bad outside world of making money, but this was a common belief in that time period, at least for people with the luxury of plenty of money. The two occured at the same time, but you can certainly have one without the other. It is not an assumption of disability, even if some people have held to both chivalry and the notion that women don't have the brains to vote.

Answer 3

People who are simply courteous may be hassled sometimes, but yes, that kind of ire should be reserved for people being obnoxious. Maybe they met someone like. . .

this guy I knew who would be obnoxious with chivalry toward his girlfriend. He would get upset if she walked up to her car door and open it, because she should have given him one more second so he could open it for her. When these little favors turn more into a way to control someone than a way to make them feel special, then they really need to get tossed out the window.

It does change the way men act though. I'll open a door for anyone (men included) walking in behind me. But I won't give up my subway seat to a woman ever again unless she appears handicapped. Women just don't seem to want that kind of chivalry. Either that or they are afraid that accepting a favor requires them to talk to me, and they are just too good to give me the time of day.

Answer 4

I think "chivalry" as it applies to men doing things for women because they believe women are weak and unable to fend for themselves is an out-dated custom.

I think common courtesy and doing things for women (or men) out of kindness and decency is not. My bf opens the door and offers me his jacket and all those "chivalrous" type actions. But he does not them NOT because he thinks I need to be taken care of, but because he was brought up to be kind, generous and helpful. Does it frustrate me sometimes? Yeah. But I've seen him hold doors open and give up his seat for other people, so I know he's not doing it because he thinks little of me.

I don't believe you should turn down an act of kindness simply because you are a female and the person doing said kind act is male. That's beyond rude. I don't care where you or what the circumstances are. If some is truly being kind and helpful (and you can tell when it's sincere), then you should return the act of kindness with a gracious "Thank you".

But maybe that's just my southern manners. My mother always told me to say "Thank you".

Answer 5

I can be civil in turning down offers of help - funnily enough never actually offered when I am struggling, only when I am looking a bit less scruffy and more feminine!
Just now, for eg, I was cycling to Angel and my scarf got caught in my bike. I was struggling to get it out without strangling myself, and when I had practically done it a man who had been sitting in a post van the whole time watching asked if he could help. Being a polite person (sometimes) I said no thanks, when really what I wanted to say was 'thanks for watching me struggle and coming over when I'm just about done you useless sack of lard'!
I think that the problem with 'chivalry' is that it only applies when a man finds a woman attractive, or worthy of respect (granny type or v. 'normal' looking mother or pregnant woman) if we do not fit into those categories we will just not even register in mens conciousness, or in a v. negative way (I would imagine that there are a lot of judgements made about my appearance).
When I looked like a punk the only men that would look in my direction were similar men, I didn't care, in fact it was good because it really cut down on harrassment - punky/ alternative blokes do not hassle women on the street (in my experience)!

Answer 6

I'm certainly not the type of princess who waits for a man to open a door for her (I like to do things myself), but if he gets there before I do (which is a bit of a race, by the way), I'm actually flattered by it.

I don't think chivalry is degrading at all - as long as it comes from the heart. It's a set of manners and respect that a man is taught to show towards women (which, as goddesses, we so deserve).

The problem is, plenty of ******* use chivalry as a "trap" to make women believe that they are respectful men. THESE are the men who think women are weak and/or stupid (because they think of themselves as such!).

However, I know for a fact that the men who are chivalrous and respectful simply because they were brought up that way are honest in their feelings, they do not think women weak or stupid at all.

But my question to you is: Is the woman who is putt off by chivalry angry because a man thinks her weak, or is she really angry because she agrees?

Your perception is most important.

Answer 7

First of all it's sexist to think all men want to do is get in your pants. Maybe it's just the polite thing to do. Some people were raised like that. My beloved is a very physically fit woman who is a martial arts expert. She is fully capable of opening doors herself but I do it for her because I feel she is special and deserves this treatment. She doesn't complain.

Answer 8

This is difficult to answer because chivalry died a loooong time ago - I'm talking about giving up your seat on the bus kind of chivalry. Opening a car door - wow; giving you coat - possibly an act of chivalry as long as it's not an investment of what might happen later (cause then it's self-serving). Chivalry existed during the time of 'polite society.' Today, we have kids blowing away other kids with Uzis, SUV's plowing down pedestrians in crosswalks - I dunno, chivalry in this day and age? I think not - except in the cases of a few, select older gentlemen.

EDIT: "That's not the case. Most men over 30 continue to be courteous towards women in the every-day life. I can't imagine things varying so greatly state by state."

Well, I have no idea where you live, but that's the way it is where I live - I didn't make this stuff up. Of course things vary greatly state by state which is why some choose to live in the South, some in the North, some in the Bible Belt, some in middle America - some on the East coast, some on the West Coast, etc., etc., etc. East 'area' has it's own culture so to speak, traditions, idioms, laws, lifestyles, and news headlines.

Answer 9

i agree. i look at chivalry as common courtesy, good manners, etc. i open doors for everyone. i say "thank you" when men or women open the door for me. it really isn't a big deal. like you said, i would only be offended if the person opening the door was being demeaning.

sometimes my fiance opens the door for me when we go out. i don't look at it as, "oh my god, we're not equal!" i look at is as, "oh, look...he's trying to be nice." you can be equal to someone and still be respectful, kind and considerate.

I'm from the south, so i never really thought of it as a sexist thing. EVERYONE opens doors here, it's just what we do...

EDIT: i don't think it implies weakness. it implies that you're trying to be nice. when i go shopping and i see some guy holding ten bags and i open the door for him, i don't think he is weak. I'm being considerate. when i open the door for a mom pushing a stroller, i am thinking about how hard it must be to push a stroller through a heavy, closed door. I'm pretty sure that when my boyfriend opens the door for me, he is thinking about how i washed the dishes last night. he is repaying the favor in a small, innocuous way.

EDIT2: i guess i don't view it as a Gender Tradition, i view it as Good Manners/Common Courtesy Tradition.

Answer 10

More times than not, I have had women say thank you when I open the door for them very few have taken it the wrong way
No matter what, I will still regard women in the highest respect even if they don't appreciate it