what is the origin of this idiom?

Question

the idiom: Big Apple.
i got the idiom from idiomsite.com but it really doesnt have the origin.
if you have or know a site that will tell me or if you know, please tell me!

Answer 1

The Big Apple.
Meaning -
Nickname for New York, USA.

Origin -
There are several theories.

One is that it derives from the translation by jazz musicians of the Manzana area as 'apple orchard'.

Another explanation has it that jazz musician's slang for engagement was 'apple' and that a date in New York was the 'big apple'. The phrase was certainly current in jazz music circles in the 1930s.

Probably the strongest contender is that it was coined in the horse racing community in the southern USA. John J. Fitz Gerald was a horse-racing writer for the New York Morning Telegraph in the 1920s. He reports hearing the phrase used by stable lads while on a visit to New Orleans in 1920, although there's nothing in that report to link the phrase to New York.

Fitz Gerald did later use the phrase with reference to New York in his 'Around the Big Apple', piece for the Telegraph on February 18, 1924, and that is the earliest citation we can find of it in print:

"The Big Apple. The dream of every lad that ever threw a leg over a thoroughbred and the goal of all horsemen. There’s only one Big Apple. That’s New York."

So, by his own account, Fitz Gerald didn't coin the phrase, but it's likely that he set it on its course to become part of the language.

Answer 2

I see the "official explanation" pushed by Barry Popik has been offered. Unfortunately, when you look at it closely it does not explain the MAIN question -- WHY?

OK, so Fitzgerald discovered instances of USES of the term around 1920. This does NOT tell you the ORIGIN of the expression! But if you put some more pieces together, I think there is a reasonable explanation.

The New Orleans connection appears to be absolutely critical. Note that it fits in with the long recognized use of the term "big apple" among New York jazz musicians of the 1930s (New Orleans roots!) And note that the fact that the term's first clearly DOCUMENTED use (by Fitzgerald) does NOT show us that the 'racetrack' application preceded its application to the jazz scene (it's hard to imagine how that would happen). It might well have happened the other way round!

So who coined the phrase, and why? I believe John Ciardi and Robert Hendrickson offer the best explanation, one which fits in very well with the Fitzgerald and jazz musician stories (though oddly Popik tends to be dismissive of it, perhaps thinking it somehow undercuts his work ?!) At any rate it makes a LOT of sense.

The explanation is simple:
The word "manzana" in Spanish means either apple or 'built up block of houses, neighborhood'. Ciardi suggests that the slang expression 'manzana prinicipale' i.e., 'main/big apple [or apple orchard]' was thrown around in New Orleans, a city with some old Spanish roots and expressions, not just French. (Popik seems to dislike the Spanish explanation because of the "French" background of New Orleans, but in fact there was more than one cultural influence in this area).

It's easy to see how such an expression might be picked up and used by folks in New Orleans to refer to some 'hot spot' where the MAIN action in a field (jazz, racing, whatever) was to be found --that was the place to be!

"In about 1910 jazz musicians there used it as a loose translation of the Spanish 'manzana principal,' the main 'apple orchard,' the main city block downtown, the place where all the action is." From the "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, New York, 1997)."
http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/21/messages/1121.html

Answer 3

there is a lot of ambiguity on the subject, i liek this write-up:
In the early 1920s, "apple" was used in reference to the many racing courses in and around New York City. Apple referred to the prizes being awarded for the races -- as these were important races, the rewards were substantial.

Based on the research of Barry Popik, the use of "Big Apple" to refer to New York City became clearer. Popik found that a writer for the New York Morning Telegraph, John Fitzgerald, referred to New York City's races "Around the Big Apple." It is rumored that Fitzgerald got the term from jockeys and trainers in New Orleans who aspired to race on New York City tracks, referring to the "Big Apple."

In the late 1920s and early 1930s, New York City's jazz musicians began referring to New York City as the "Big Apple." An old saying in show business was "There are many apples on the tree, but only one Big Apple." New York City being the premier place to perform was referred to as the Big Apple.

A 1971 campaign to increase tourism to New York City adopted the Big Apple as an officially recognized reference to New York City. The campaign featured red apples in an effort to lure visitors to New York City. It was hoped that the red apples would serve as a bright and cheery image of New York City, in contrast to the common belief that New York City was dark and dangerous. Since then, New York City has officially been The Big Apple.

In recognition of Fitzgerald, the corner of 54th & Broadway, where Fitzgerald lived for 30 years, was renamed "Big Apple Corner" in 1997.

Answer 4

Well...way back when...the silk manufacturers would use a piece of string to mark the fabric. In high society silk was a necessity so when a dress maker would order the fabric she would typically tell him how much "with no strings attached."

Answer 5

its called the big apple because once upon a time a women that lives in the outskirts of new york planted an apple tree and grew it. the apples turned out to be so huge, she made a stand and her brand grew throughout america.