Does feminism beget communism?

Question

Feminism strives for female independence from men such that women don't depend on men as their financial providers. Suppose for a moment that, per Mike T's question, that feminism is unnatural. Namely that women innately yearn for a provider, whether they claim to or not. What happens when, because of feminism, that provider is not there? Who then becomes the provider?

I notice that women overhwhelmingly seem to support nationalized health care (which is a communist-like control of 12% of the American economy). The justification more often than not seems to be some sense of communal caring...A desire to be "taken care of", if you will.

Is the political position that so many women take on health care a result of this desire to be cared for combined with a sense that they are not financially being taken care of on a personal level? Is communism the "natural" goal (or at least end-result) of feminism?

Note: I know that many men advocate nationalized health care. Though I suspect a similar motivation, I don't know if it's due to a similar innate drive.

kessie: I begin with the goals of feminism and question what happens when applied to a reality that it doesn't appropriately fit (a reality that I don't assert as fact, but as possible). Suppose that women actually do have an innate desire to be cared for. Does this explain the radical left-wing nature of most feminists? Does this explain why so many women like the idea of nationalized health care? If feminists want female financial liberty, why would they be so supportive of collectivist policies (which are just the opposite of that)?

Fereshte: While I didn't claim that ALL women yearn for a provider, do you have any evidence to support your hereto unsupported claim (which I will call a false assumption) that women don't yearn for a provider? My personal experience with human nature strongly suggests otherwise despite, as I said in my question, that women might deny it.

Fereshte: To add, nationalizing health care takes away property in the form of taxation. While it's not a complete usurpation of property rights, it lays claim to about 12% of the economy.

Fereshte: The fact that you personally espouse your financial independence AND don't support nationalized health care supports my point. Namely that somebody who prefers independence from others is more likely to oppose communist (which is the same thing as socialism, but only varies in extent) policies. But it is apparent that feminists overwhelmingly tend to be left-wing, and often extremely so. So therein lies my question. Is this association due to a innate desire to be taken care of, despite the fact that feminists argue the opposite? Note that I added a note immediately after asking the question that many men support nationalized health care and may do so because they too want to be taken care of.

players2069: The money to pay for those who prefer not to be insured would come from where? Thin air? No, it comes from a collective body. This brand of financial collectivism has a name (communism). But your political justification is irrelevant to my question, which is: Why do feminists yearn to be cared for by government rather than obtain the means to security themselves?

Fereshte: I think you just made up that "single parents" bit.

Rio Madeira: Canadians don't seem to happy about their health care system. Neither do the British.

Fereshte: I never qualified women with "all" or otherwise, so you're making false assumptions. If you believe that such tendencies are biochemical in nature, then it stands to reason that my statement wouldn't necessarily apply to "all" women as biochemistry differs among individuals. But I do see that (since you're working on history homework) that you're young and have not yet formed a mature opinion on how your life would be best lived. Let me know what you feel in a decade.

tehabwa: I'm married to a real live woman who is financially dependent on me (and whom I treat quite well). I also work with numerous women who have universally expressed jealousy that they too can't live the life that my wife does. So I hardly think that the sentiment that you express is based as much on real-life women as your zealous attachment to feminism.

By the way, communism's central tenet is that people should be "equal"...

RoVale: What does your flawed opinion about the effectiveness of socialist medical systems have to do with my question. If you would like to put your ignorance on display, please do so in a relevany question.

Answer 1

The flaw in your question is that your entire thesis is based off the assumption that women want to be supported--whether they claim to or not. As this is a false assumption, it washes out the rest of the question. While SOME women may desire a protector/provider (and I'm not knocking this, it is up to the female to live out or have her own desires), this is not some innate, hidden female trait. Oh I'm sure culture has indoctrinated us enough to think that's its true, but over the past few decades, women have proved it false.
I, for example, love being independent. I love paying for my own bills, as I have no one to answer to. I love my independence, my freedom, and though I wish to be married one day, and not looking forward to said freedom being curtailed.
I don't think my feelings are the minority, either. I know many women who glorify in their independence.
Besides, wanting national health-care (which I don't agree with) does not lead to communism (that is actually socialism. One would think you would do your homework first?). Taking away an individuals property, or rights to property.... now THAT'S the start of communism.
And not all women are left-wing. Even as a feminist, I'm still more republican. So please don't lump women together under some made-up banner. It degrades your perceived intelligence.


EDIT*** Oookay, well MY personal experience as a woman and with personal experience surrounded by OTHER women is that you're wrong. I know more females that enjoy independence than the other way around. Not to say that there aren't women who long to be provided for, but their desires do not make some biological trait for women. And again, goverment provided health-care and education systems is NOT communism but socialism. And to be honest, I know more MEN who support national health-care. I personally think its a horrible idea. Several men have argued with me over the opinion. So, on this "personal experience with humans", does it mean that perhaps MEN desire to be provided for? After all, I could make the all generalizing statement like yours that ALL men are looking for a woman to take care of him (as his mother took care of him before, and the position would be passed on to his wife). Perhaps the desire to be taken care of by a woman leads to MALES wanting communism.

EDIT*** The majority of SINGLE PARENTS want national health-care so that their children are provided for. This includes both single mothers and fathers. However, at the moment, there are more single mothers out there than single fathers, and this leads to it looking like more women want health-care. The problem then is not about gender, but that single parents are having difficulty providing health-care for their children.

EDIT*** an innate desire in women would mean ALL women (as it would be a biological trait and not a choice). As I am a feminist, and not left-wing, and do NOT desire to be "take care of", how can all women then have this innate desire?
Also, not ALL feminists are left-wing (thank God). Those are just the militant, loud-mouthed ones. There are many of us everywhere else and hate to be associated with the rants of just a percentage of feminism.
(you're killing me here. I SHOULD be doing my history term paper....)

EDIT*** Don't assume things, I'm working towards my PhD degree, which happens to be in history. Do you assume that all of us in college are young? Perhaps that I've served 8 years in the military will add some age to me? That I served my country before I went to college? My knoweldge is based off of both age and wisdom, don't degrade what you don't know.

Answer 2

Any person who gets pregnant or raises children will require assistance from somone - husband, family, or government. I agree that there is something very silly about dumping all the husbands in favor of a "government husband'. A welfare check can't tuck the kids in at night - it's a bad trade. There is enough evidence to suggest that children are better off with real families to nix the idea that we'll be better off somehow if we could only get rid of the men, and live as individuals in a communist society.

Feminisim would work just fine - as long as all women agree to act like men, and don't want to raise children. Women just don't seem to be going along with the plan - hence, we need other forms of financial support for those women encouraged to do it "alone". A single person just can't raise a family without some help - whether from a daycare provider or a gov't check. Feminists are now scrambling to deal with the obvious problem created when women are encouraged to be "both" mother and father.

Answer 3

Well this simple question comes to mind.....if women are working all the time then who will raise the family....I think, as women, we have the most important job, to instill within our children self worth and morals. Look how our civilization has decayed since the feminist movement came around. Children are be brought up by TV and people wonder why things have digressed so much. I think marriage is more of team work than it is for a woman to feel like she is financially stable. Yes most of us have a nurturing nature but to be provided for is only a means to an end because when we don't have to worry about going to work we are more able to do all the things mom's long to do.

Answer 4

Do you know how much the average trip to the ER costs?
One trip there can put you in the hole for a LONG LONG time. I am still paying for an accident I had 5 years ago!
Or how much it costs to treat cancer? AIDS? To set broken bones? It's A LOT.
Part of the position on national health care is to relieve part of the massive debt that is currently carried by the uninsured patients.
And its not just women. Men use health care too. And I don't know any men who want to be saddled with a 14,000 dollar bill after a car accident.
This is not a communist stand, its a stand for self preservation for this country. The current generation is carrying at least 20,000 dollars in student loan debt. An accident or life threatening disease can make that debt grow to be twice as large in a matter of a few hours. Add to that credit card debt, car loan debt, and you're looking at 70+ thousand of debt that you can't pay back. Then what? Nobody can pay anybody and society collapses.

Answer 5

Feminism strives for equality between the sexes. That's the core principle. As part of that idea, getting rid of limits on what women are allowed to do with their lives has been one of the goals.

In fact, women can't depend on men for financial providers. Men leave the women and the children they had together to starve. Depending on a man also forced a lot of women to stay with "providers" who beat them senseless on a regular basis.

The people who keep telling you that all women yearn to be taken care of have been lying to you. It's simply not true, and demeaning to assume YOU know how I feel, when I clearly tell you I feel otherwise.

Since it's much more common for women to be both caregivers and providers for children, and much poorer overall than men, it's natural that women are more likely to support affordable health care.

It also seems that there's a larger sub-set of men, than of women, who are indifferent to the suffering and needless death of the young (such as you, for example). Fortunately, most men are not completely unfeeling in this regard.

If it were the case that women could afford health care for themselves and their children, they wouldn't be pushing for change to the current system. But they can't so they do.

So much of your post depends on the false idea that all women want to stay home, and have no careers or interests in life besides taking care of the home, that I'm compelled to ask, have you ever actually MET a real, live woman?

Answer 6

I don't know how many British or Canadian people you have talked with personally but every one I've ever met does like their healthcare system and wouldn't trade places with Americans for anything. Also, do you actually believe that the uninsured in this country "choose" not to have insurance? Try getting it when you don't work for a company that provides it or you have a pre-existing condition. I know people without insurance who dread it when their children get sick. I also know somebody who needs back surgery but can't get it because his insurance provider won't cover it and he can't afford to pay for it on his own. I don't understand why you seem to think that somehow, a patchwork system where people are at the mercy of insurance companies is better than the nationalized healthcare systems of every other industrialized country in the world. I guess you haven't had much experience with dealing with them like I have. You can't get coverage for this because it's "experimental" or that because "it costs too much". I admit that I don't feel too warmly about insurance companies in part also because my sister used to work for one. She was told by her bosses to do everything she could to deny coverage and look for every loophole possible to delay paying out or deny it entirely. You sound like someone who's young and hasn't had much in the way of life experiences. Wait until you're older and not as healthy. I'll bet you'll feel differently.

Answer 7

I live in Canada, where health care is national, people make their money, and everyone is happy. It's the same story in France and the U.K. So rethink your stereotyping, dearie.

Anyway, feminism supports a free market, with the government only providing vital services such as health care, Social Security, and child care. The single mothers who need government assistance most are usually the ones who became single mothers involuntarily.

Answer 8

You begin with female independence then turn it inside out to a desire to be taken care of - biologically no less. You take a thought, rework it to support your already rigid belief system - then post it with all sincerity.

You continue to win the award for the most insulting, twisted male on this site. Instead of ending with "I don't know," you should have started with it - and ended there.