Is maculinity bad for you?

Question

According to Dr. Aaron Rochlen, it is. What do you think?

Many dads are challenging old definitions of manliness "Masculinity has traditionally been associated with work related success, competition, power, prestige, dominance over women, restrictive emotionality" says Aaron Rochler a professor of psychology in the University of Texas, who studies fatherhood and masculinity", but "A good parent needs to be expressive and emotional, not money oriented".

According to him fathers who stop being "men of the old mold", have better adjusted children, better marriages and better work lives-better physical and mental health. According to Rochlen, "masculinity is bad for you".

This is taken from an article in "Times" (Nov. 26, 2007), which talks about fatherhood, the title: "As dads have begun to act more like moms, old notions of masculinity have come into question".

The main question of the article is "Being more of a father makes you less of a man?. Committed fathers who are helping 50/50 raising their children are confronted sometimes with admiration other times with ridicule.

Joe that is exactly what this doctor is defending. He states further that society hasn't made it easy for evolved dads to feel manly either, because of society's stereotypes on gender roles.
The article is very interesting, I don't know if there is a version on-line. I will look for it if I find it I post the link.

Amazing, I found the whole article, someone copied it (the wonders of the Internet):

http://www.geocities.com/girlinside123/dads.html

Answer 1

Numark, I believe your father was precisely the type of father the author was talking about. That is, the type of father that was very common when I was younger. He provided for the family but his priorities were elsewhere. That was the father who ignored his children or was emotionally detached from them so that they essentially were raised by their mothers alone. Basically, that type of family was a single parent family but without the mother having to work because there was an income. Nobody is talking about having two mothers. This is about having a father who actually is involved with his children besides just taking them out on trips, buying them toys, and being best friends instead of fathers. This is somebody who actually helps raise his children instead of leaving it to somebody else. A father should be more than just a paycheck, a sperm donor, and a disciplinarian.

Answer 2

True masculinity means being secure enough in that to know that if your 4 year old daughter wants to put makeup on daddy, it doesn't make you less of a man, and in my opinion being a good father makes you MORE of a man. The generalized concept of what is "manly" and what is "womanly" is clearly outdated in today's society. Is a man less "masculine if he is a stay at home dad and his wife/partner earns the family's living? If the woman has greater earning power, it is more sensible and he is MORE of a man for making the decision that is best for his family rather than what "looks" masculine. If a couple is working together as equals, it is better for everyone. Two heads are better than one and if two people are working together to make family life work, of course you are going to be a more successful family unit, and more mentally, physically and emotionally healthy. I don't think dads are acting more like moms, they are just becoming better fathers. It's all a part of the evolution of the species.

Answer 3

Those things have nothing to do with masculinity. Dr Rochlen is giving his definition of masculinity. Masculinity is not about that. That would be like me saying femininity is about staying home and cooking and watching the kids etc, because that has been the traditional meaning of what it is to be feminine. Those two examples are just one persons perception of the truth which is factually incorrect.
It reminds me of insecure people who claim that you are not a man unless you work a blue collar job in construction, eat meat,drink beer etc. Same goes for the women who might say that you are not a woman if you wear pants, play sports, drink beer, etc. I am surprised that such a statement is coming from someone who is a supposed educated doctor.

Edit: I am a father who had 50 custody and I am not less of a man because of it. I care jsut as much for my child as her mom does. People who say things like being a good dad makes you less of a man are simply idiots who more than likely have little education and should in no way be taken seriously.

Edit: Well I agree with it in that case. Sorry I misunderstood.

Answer 4

Let me get this straight: good fathers should become mothers? A good father is more feminine than masculine?

Assuming the kids already have a mother, why do they need a second mother, but no father.

It is natural to have one feminine parent and one masculine parent. I can't see how any reasonable person can dispute that, but evidently some people disagree.

I am thankful that my father never got that news flash. He always took care of his family materially, but also spent time otherwise. And there was not ever a moment's question who the man of the house was.

So, now, not only do we have a record number of families with no father, they want to convince the fathers that are with their families to become mothers not fathers.

Unbelievable.

EDIT:

RoVale, thanks for the kind remarks about my dad. It's nice that we agree on something. LOL

However, the author is relating masculinity to being a bad father.

Masculinity and being a good father are not mutually exclusive, as he contends. However, fathers sometimes do have to work long hours.

I learned the life lesson that a father leverages his masculine strength. A good father may have to put in long hours, but still spend the time that he does have available with them.

He is willing to do "whatever it takes" to care for his children physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually.

Answer 5

in basic terms examining those solutions are going to furnish me a nightmare thinking of if those musicians shaped a band. Worst Vocalist: Chad Kroeger Worst Drummer: Meg White (besides the shown fact that I do in basic terms like the White Stripes) Worst Bassist: Nikki Sixx Worst Guitarist: Herman Lee

Answer 6

" Does being more of a father make you less of a man? How trite, facile and superficial. We are the primate that has heavy male investment in child rearing.

Why I even bother to answer this psychological tripe is almost beyond me. Then I remember that the incoherence of psychological analysis must be opposed with a scientific analysis of ever shifting variance in human social behavior.

Tell " Dr " Rochlen to come out of the " moralistic fallacy " and into the real world.

Answer 7

Being a living stereotype of any kind is bad for you.

Of course children whose fathers are actually in their lives, rather than working 16 hour days, are better off.

Of course children whose parents both express affection for them are better off.

I think the notion of masculinity used is narrow and stereotypical, rather than genuine.

Yes, being obsessed with money, and desiring nothing but that and dominating over everyone around you is bad.

That's news?

Answer 8

I doubt this researcher very much. Whenever I see a research related headline like this, usually that researcher (and ONLY that researcher) have nabbed a sliver of datum to support their whacky, controversial thesis, and run with it.

In recent memory, there was one where the researcher states that if a woman is ovulating, her chances of being raped are higher, and somehow produced some obscure, circumstantial data that suggests itself to be supportive of his theory. He wasn't a 'real' (my subjective bent) researcher either, he was trying to get noticed in the hopes that somebody, ANYBODY would give him another grant so he didn't have to go back to work at the Sunoco.

The first thing that makes me want to unilaterally dismiss this guy is the part about dominance over women being a quality of masculinity. DOMINANCE is a quality attributed to masculinity, and it's pinnacle (as far as these stereotypes are concerned) is dominance over other men.

I also dismiss his claims of 'better adjusted children.' Let's see what kind of adults and parents they turn out to be, over at least three generations before we say that, eh?

A good parent needs to be expressive and emotional, not money oriented? Then who is going to teach the kids that money will dictate every aspect of their future? And who is going to teach them that it is often better to HIDE your feelings, rather than toss them about indiscriminately? Who is going to teach them not to be ruled by their petty wants? Are excessive emotional displays by children what we want to cultivate? Really?

Aaron Rochlen is plugging for publicity, hoping for another grant. Methinks he's doing part time at the Sunoco, already.

Last and not least, from an social evolutionary standpoint, his logic is flawed. If we breed for 'sheep,' the only folks eating will be the 'wolves.'

Joe Below: Well said, Broham. Well said, indeed.

Answer 9

Since the 60s men have been questioning the role of "masculinity" - just like women's lib, men also had consciuosness raising groups, new age groups (drumming, etc), meditation, etc. they still exist. Many books were written on the subject, too.

many men (and women) question the role of masculinity - many have found it destructive and limiting (not all agree, as we see from some of these 'traditionalist' posters). (Just as women saw their role as limiting, too)

my father kept all his emotions in. pushing a baby stroller was unmanly as was talking about your feelings, showing love, etc. i do not want to marry a man like my father. i have asked classrooms of people & have had the same response - no offense to the men, but we want men who act as humans - not as wallets, not as emotionally unresponsive, etc.

today, men ARE changing. and although expressing emotion is considered 'feminine' - isn't it really human - not belonging to any one gender?

men have shorter life spans, higher rates of suicide, less doctor visits - many believe their gender role is to blame. thus, becoming more emotional and more involved with family is being considered more of an ideal.

personally, i embrace this - both as a health professional who wants to see men's health improve and as a woman who wants a more emotionally available men in my life.

Answer 10

Great question, but you need to be careful with the wording - a lot of men on this forum are going to take the term "masculinity" and think of it as something intrinsic, rather than a social role.

Another way "masculinity" is bad for men is that men don't go to the damn doctor. I think all women can attest to this - ever try telling your partner to go to the dermatologist to get that freaky looking mole checked out? It doesn't happen. I also find that men don't engage in preventive care as much as women. I don't know how it's terrifyingly feminine to be actively engaged in your health and well-being, but apparently it is.