Torture is Torture: CIA destroyed video of 'waterboarding' al-Qaida detainees ?

Question

We read with disgust that not only has the USA admitted breaking international law in allowing its Intelligence Agency to carry out water torture, but is now destroying the evidence.

'The CIA destroyed video evidence of the coercive interrogation of al-Qaida operatives held under its secret rendition programme in order to shield agents from prosecution, it was revealed yesterday.

The decision to destroy two videotapes documenting the use of waterboarding against Abu Zubaydah and another high-value al-Qaida detainee was made in November 2005 - as American media were just beginning to focus on the existence of the secret CIA prison network'

Isnt it time that the USA come clean and those responsible for ordering torture be brought to account ?

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2223738,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

Answer 1

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
-Declaration of Independence

"Whatever you do to the least of your brothers, you also do that to me." - Jesus

"Treat others as you would desire them to treat you."
-Every Prophet of every religion and plain old commonsense.



Ironic that the USA claims that its legal foundation on the first quote. Its religious foundation on the second. Its moral and ethical foundation on the third.

The reality is that this in practise it appears to be a flim-flam. The USA was for the most part established by the Original Gangsters, who not only stole from the Brits who were stealing from the Native Americans, (and others) but continued stealing from those Native Americans and others, which resulted in the expansion from 13 colonies to 13 states,to 50 states and several Commonwealths.

Torture is most effective to get someone to tell you what you want them to tell you. It fails the test of the three quotations.

The world is in a dire state of affairs if the USA is the proposed model for democracy or world leadership. Many of its citizens are accutomed to lies and lying. Unfortunately many its citizens are less accustomed to critical thinking which makes them gulible to lies. Worse most of its citizens stand for nothing and really have no understanding of Liberty, therefore fall for anything.

With all of their supposed Liberty they fail to employ the faculty of self-examination without authoritarian prompting. They are easily bought and sold. They have be slaves from the beginning and the bulk of them will remain so. They have unwittingly and willingly gained the world and lost their souls.
They believe not in the Golden Rule. Rather they believe in in the Golden Plated Rule,"He who has the gold, makes the rules. Might makes Right. Remember money is a form of free speech.

People are living in the wealthy nation where a pawn shop in on the stock exchange, its medical establishment is more focused on bottom line than healing, more attention is paid to an actress than multimillion dollar crooks who stole the life savings of hardworking people.


It is a sad state of affairs when the nation that claims Liberty for ALL, equality for All, and in some cases the belief in the Golden Rule, has to debate the merits of torture.

Old habits are hard to break and bad habits even harder.

They can dish it out, but can they take it? The answer is no. You might not get what you pay for,but you will definitely pay for what you get.

Governmental responsibility starts with the true government of, for, and by the People. The people have fallen short on their duty to be first personally accountable for their individual actions to investigate for the truth of the matters that have shaped the system of government. They have bought into lazy thinking and hard-hearted, mean-spiritedness, that will make them victims of themselves.

Answer 2

Well...considering the shenanigans CIA have gotten up to in the sixty or so years since their instigation (not to mention all the other intelligence agencies such as MI5 and the Mossad), assassinations, arms trading and whatnot, torture and waterboarding are pretty small potatoes. The thing about torture is, you torture someone long enough, they'll tell you anything you want to hear, right? That's the problem.

These days, I'd reckon if there was an equivalent to the 1970's Church Committee Hearings going on (for those that don't know, the CCH were how all the old Anti-Castro plots were uncovered), a hell of a lot of information about what's REALLY going on at Gitmo and all them places would be coming out. As to whether or not it would have any effect...well, did the Iran/Contra hearings have any real effect on the Reagan or Bush Sr administrations? Not really. Christ, even Oliver North is an occasional talking head on Faux News these days.

Know your history, folks, and you'll find that there's nothing new under the sun going on here. After all, it's not as if the CIA invented torture, did they? No CIA in Ancient Rome, or during the Spanish inquisition- antics that made the CIA look like a bunch of fuckin' amateurs.

Answer 3

If I was the CIA, I would destroy the videos once I was done with them. There are way too many moonbats out there, trying to chime in on what they believe is torture and what they think is illegal. Hey where were all those people before the war. Thought probably hadn't crossed their minds. Hey where were those people the first year or two of the war...Nowhere. Convenient how now, where there has been some complaints about the war that these "issues" pop up. The media and all these liberals are what keeps this war from being successful. Just hush up already. If we could just go in there and kick butt like we can, it would be over already. But all these tree hugging moonbats out there, want to do what ever they can to slow progress. They are so for throwing up roadblocks that they don't care if we lose. As long as in there minds they win, the end justifies the means. Fact is, without killing them, ripping arms off, or fingers,etc, I am for whatever means brings us info. This isn't a way against another country, this is a war against terrorist. Do you think they will follow any kind of rules? Remember those people getting their heads cut off on video. Goodness sakes. People should be ashamed of themselves. Joe schmo's idea of torture and mine are probably different, So rather then tying our governments hand and then criticizing them when they lose, let's have faith they will do what is needed to protect us. So destroying the video if anything was probably just an attempt to eliminate the inevidable moonbats from having anything else to twist the arm of the government. Plus is there some sort of law saying they have to video tape it, or keep the video. Probably not. So people just need to let it go and find some tree to kiss.

Answer 4

Well wel! here is someone who relentlessly 'tortured' the Mccann family over allegations of murder and child abuse changing his colors.
If we are demonstrably better than fundamentalist islamo-fascism and can justifiably claim the moral high ground then torture, denial of human rights is of course wrong
On the other hand, if we are engaged in a primal, visceral primaeval battle for survival, anything goes
(See the skill with which he disambiguates moral relativism, wonder at his facility to dupe the dudes with semantic sophistry!)
Anyway torture is a blunt instrument. It is best used to extract a confession. It is worse than useless for obtaining info as the subject in extremis will tell you EVERYTHING, including lies in order to plac8 his inquisitors.
Mr Everest summit of ludicrous idealism! You who would value the smack of leather on willow and warm evenings supping beer in country pubs 'and stands the church clock at 10 to three..and is there honey still for tea?' stuff. If we allowed dialogue let alone compromise with the islamo-fascist hordes all that and gentle english tolerance would be gone for ever.

Answer 5

It would be a good time for everyone in the world to come clean and take responsibility for torture, including those who have torture rendered onto people by suicide bombers.

Edit: What international laws have al-Qaida broken and taken responsibility for? Who have they brought to account?
When will their practices be focused upon?

Answer 6

It is terrible but so was 9/11 or have you forgotten about that? What about all the suicide bombers and every other Al Queda bombers? They need to find out as much as they can. Don't think for a second that they will leave that place or any kind of prison. A least the US are doing something about it unlike UK who have to afford these animals Human Rights!!

Answer 7

Considering how those Islamic sh*theads decapitate their hostages slowly with a hacksaw, waterboarding is way too good for them.

Cry me a freakin' river, you whiner.

Edit-
Mark Everest: WE are destroying the world by burning up fossil fuels?. What do you w@nkers drive in England, donkey carts?.
If they crash two jets into office building killing thousands of people, its only natural their country gets hijacked in return.
And just how in that empty fishbowl on top of your shoulders do you think TALKING with those animals will do any good?. They form medieval mobs to call for the killing of a harmless teacher because she gave the wrong name to a teddy bear and they riot like chimps over islamic cartoons.

No one can reason with them and their dark age beliefs. And for someone who "doesn't defend terrorism", you sure put a lot of effort on that.

Answer 8

We don't know the half of what goes on, sadly no matter how much people protest against this sort of thing it will always happen. It's not just the USA either, cover ups happen in every single country, humans are their own worst enemy.

Answer 9

Dais, maybe in your fantasy la-la land being morally superior to your opponent can win you a war, but not here, in the real world. If we play by the rules and the enemy doesn't, game over, we lose. How did you think we won against Japan's mighty military?. Did we tip-toe around their country to avoid stepping on our enemies toes while we fought them?...No, we bombed the crap out of them relentlessly after they sneak attacked Pearl Harbor and made them surrender. Please, leave the "two wrongs don't make a right" crap for school fights between boys.

Answer 10

destruction of evidence is not old or new. the checks and balances that we learned in school are loooong gone.. i dunno if they ever were to be rather frank with you.

if breaking the rules has been done in secret now it is done in open and action is not being taken.

use of torcher is not limited to Iraqi detainees. it is a sort of tradition if you will. information by any means necessary. some prisoners die because they don't talk! why? because they honestly didn't know anything.

the so called israeli government - occupation more like it.. has the same thing going on and had it going on for several years. they actually at times give the person a CHOICE of what part of their body will be broken.

a sad truth is that torcher is widespread. the usa as a superpower gave itself the immunity. so this action gives other countries under it's trigger happy wing the same perks.

Dick Cheney Rules
Published: June 3, 2007

The Associated Press reported that Mr. Cheney’s office ordered the Secret Service last September to destroy all records of visitors to the official vice presidential mansion — right after The Washington Post sued for access to the logs. That move was made in secret, naturally. It came out only because of another lawsuit, filed by a private group, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, seeking the names of conservative religious figures who visited the vice president’s residence.

This disdain for accountability is distressing, but not surprising. Mr. Cheney has had it on display from his first days in office, when he refused to name the energy-industry executives who met with him behind closed doors to draft an energy policy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/opinion/03sun2.html

follow above link for full article