Is the Role of The Music Producer Still Vital, or Even Necessary Today?

Question

They've always been seen as the "vital creative guiding voices" of music ... but a lot of good bands today are doing just fine producing their own work. It will surprise me, though, when an indie label band still takes on a producer.

I just never understood how a person, who almost often has never picked up an instrument himself (or herself), can exert so much creative control over a band - and get paid an insane amount of money to do it!

Very true, and scary about Metallica Rckets. Could it also be a label contract requirement? Hmm

Wow - thanks for the insight SPP :)

I have noticed that some producers are like designer labels-- Bob Ezrin for one. The members of The Mars Volta, who originally had a very DIY ethic as part of the now defunct ATDI - hired Bob Ezrin to produce their work (which is lame). But I could see how they just wanted Ezrin's name there for that purpose

I guess you've got a point amancalledj :)

Thanks Prof! I'm glad you supplied that angle.
I guess it's the equivalent of having a good editor who doesn't butcher your work, but actually enhances your work :)

I'm still not 100% in agreement, though Prof. Like Rckets said - look at the crap Metallica has put out under the direction of Rick Rubin - nuff said.

Thanks again rckets for that fantastic example ;-P

Jake - now that sounds like a good plan of action. Split the creative control down the middle.

Thanks for the correction Prof!!! IBut you're absolutely right - it was Rubin, not Ezrin who produced De-Loused In The Comatorium. Omar produced Frances the Mute for certain. And his side projects. Rubin apparently took them to some haunted hollywood mansion to get inspiration, lol ...at least that's the story I got from them

The new one, I am almost certain is independently produced ... and released by Gold Standard labs - Omar's co-label

hmm ... don't know why Bob Ezrin came to mind first.

Working against my own point, too, lol ... I gotta admit that "Deloused" is probably still my favorite of all three (not include the EP wiretap scars - is that what it's called?)

Another good point Ryan :) But I think that's the mixing engineer's primary job

Tremulant!!! Thanks again Prof!! That's one EP
I don't own and need to get ... I've only heard some tracks as mp3s. It's fantastic that you appreciate their music :)

...And as I'm sure you'll agree Sparta is an entirely different ballpark (that's where I was reminded about wiretap scars)

Answer 1

Incredibly important. It works out great for a lot of acts, but I think a lot of the time that point of view outside of the egos and even just the basic idea the band may have can be just ridiculously important. I'm sure on a ton of projects the producer has probably been the unsung hero that doesn't necessarily get the notariaty for it. I think I also am biased on the subject because I've worked with and without someone producing the project (on an incredibly small scale, but it's just about the experience) and man, the project is more focused, the songs seem to flow better from beginning to end, and the big thing is when it's someone you trust and will defer to you can give the power to someone and give them the say of what flies and what doesn't it can be incredibly useful. I imagine the band dynamic, especially in the case of a younger band that just went from playing some cool clubs to a big record deal, can be pretty complex and silly. That way the producer makes the call and the band members don't have to trump each other. It also keeps the focus in a case like that where a band may want to go too big or do too much with the pressure of wanting to make a first big record.

Also, imagine all those great Nigel Godrich records for instance without his input. I swear they wouldn't be as good. I don't know why, but his track record (at least with the bands he worked with that I listen to). He's hitting like .800 (the Sea Change minus like 4 tracks was pretty boring), and I can't imagine with those records being so distinctive that he didn't have a ton to do with their greatness.

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Hi Mach Pen. Is the Bob Ezrin hire a new thing? I know Rubin did the first record, but I thought Omar had produced everything Frances the Mute and forward.

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It's true. I think it's more of a case by case basis thing too. I don't think it's always the right direction to go, and I'm sure that often there is a not so great match-up of producer to band and record. I think the best answer to give is "it depends"

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That's a good point Jake. A good producer can be a great liason between the band and the engineer also in a case where the band may not be so up on the process.

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(kind of working towards your point and against mine, but...) I heard the demos they gave to Rubin before the record. I'm not sure that I don't like those versions better. They didn't have all the songs for it, and one was instrumental, but the ones that they completely did had a cool rawness to them.

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Actually, I think there is confusion between the engineer and the producer. The engineer is the one who needs to know the programs and the consoles and outboard gear, etc. The producer can help in the capacity of translating to the engineer, but a good engineer can do that as well. The producer is kind of like a project manager. They provide ideas, make sure the performances are up to par and often coaches the "talent," gets everybody doing what they need to. Usually the engineering and producing are separate.

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Oops. You already spoke to that.
I haven't really heard that first e.p. (Tremulant e.p.? maybe?)I've been meaning to check it out though.

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I saw Sparta once and I wasn't very impressed. Between that performance, and hearing about why the split happened (from a very TMV point of view, basically that Omar and Cedric wanted to make more intricate and expansive music while the Sparta dudes wanted to just keep writing pop tunes) I've never really been excited enough to pick anything up, but At The Drive In has been growing on me lately (I actually hadn't heard them until I had gotten into the Mars Volta) and I've been thinking I should at least look into them.

I totally dig the Mars Volta though. They put on a great show and I think I would put Francis the Mute as a top 10 album of this decade so far. That record just blew my mind.

Also, I was thinking about this question last night. I was hanging out with my friend who just produced a record for this band that is local to Ventura. Really great band, but their previous albums really had a perfectly played and balanced live performance type of vibe to them, but with this new record they worked with my friend who is really into psychodelic rock and he really worked with them to expand their sound. It's not really fair to judge their past work, which is very good, against this effort for a few reasons. First off, the songs are obviously different and so you're looking at the guys from totally different periods with totally different songs (even a couple of new members) and they were ready to make a more psychodelic record so they may have done some of this stuff on their own, but I've seen the effect Jon has had on their project and I'm sure the band will admit that he was an incredibly useful tool and idea bank in making the record even better. I think about at least the possibilities of how much the right producer can positively impact a record and I disagree with the poster below who says they, as a blanket statement, are overpaid and given too much of an importance. Like I said above I think the answer is it depends on the artist and the record they are making and mistakes are made as much as things go great, but I do think the right producer on the right record can make a huge impact.

Wow, this is a really, really long answer.

Answer 2

I guess based on a question I was thinking about asking down the road, my answer is no. It doesn't seem vital nor necessary. I've often wondered why a really talented band would even need to have some other dude calling the shots. Seems like the really great acts subscribe to the DIY ethic. Case in point, Metallica. They have been content to be produced into mediocrity for the past twenty years.

Bad Religion is another example. I read somewhere that the album they hated the most was the one produced by Todd Rundgren. BR's best work was before Stranger Than Fiction, when they were producer-less.

MachPen - Always glad to be of service. :-P

Answer 3

This is pretty much a full list of major producers in the game right now: Timbaland Kanye West Cool And Dre Tha Runners Polow Da Don Dr. Dre Jermaine Dupri DJ Premier Pete Rock Neptunes Swizz Beats Akon Just Blaze DJ Skee Drumma Boy Mr. Collipark Justice League Bangladesh JR Rotem Scott Storch Alchemist Midnite Black Shawty Redd Darkchild Dj Quik Teddy Riley Rick Rock Fredwreck Soopafly Battlecat DJ Toomp Mannie Fresh LA Reid

Answer 4

Depends on what the industry is like - producers basically artistically make music art more reacheable for the general public. They digest raw art, and regurgitate what more people like to hear. There's arguements to be made both ways - but for the almighty dollar, American Idol, and the industry, they won't go away - rather, they'll probably unionize and tighten their grip on what art should be.
Basically the choices for producers now include:
Which direction do you want to go/what audience do you want?
How much of your actual original art can you give up to make more money?
Can you sleep with yourself as an artist knowing someone else modified your work, or do you feel comfortable allowing someone who IS professional (there are many) to take your raw work and make it "better"? Much musical art is out there, undocumented and unpublished. Except the coasts, and Chicago or maybe Denver, the scene doesn't care. I've recorded raw/live hundreds of bands' unpublished work, (many times the only recorded work of the band) and frankly, most of them don't even know what they sound like live: they just hear their amps and maybe the drummer. I DO agree they get paid WAY too much, but I think there is an industry for them, and it's a shame the zombies control it.

Answer 5

Sometimes producers are necessary to reign in the scatterbrained creativity of artists. Many artists produce their own work better than anyone else could; others need some help. Many indie bands form a relationship with a producer; he becomes almost a member of a band (Flaming Lips with Dave Fridmann, for example). Others work with a producer who has worked on an influential work with a unique sound (how many indie/alternative bands flocked to Steve Albini after hearing the Pixies Surfer Rosa?).

Answer 6

I still think it is very important. Record Producers learn a ton of stuff at Recording school that the average musician won't know how to do. They are trained professionals, so I'm sure most producers will do better than a band producing themselves.

Edit: I will say that the best way to go is for a band to co-produce their record. That way you can still do what you want and still have it sound good and all that fun stuff.

Answer 7

you're right. It dates back to the 60's really. I know this because I used to be primarily a studio guitarist. Generally a band knows exactly what they want something to sound like, it's just up to the producer to find the ranges and effects that illustrate the artists' visions. Sadly as well, it's also their responsibility to change and affect pitch levels in recordings... Like if a singer is off key, its popular now to use a device to alter the recording to make them in key.
It sort of makes the whole process pretty fake in itself
but thats what they do.

Plus, for a garage band with no knowledge of the industry, producers have time, money, and equipment.

Kinda scary, huh?

holy rusted metal bat man!

Answer 8

I guess the flip side would be along the lines of this: You have 12 great songs and you know it. You play those 12 songs really, really well. You want a large, bombastc sound; but you're not sure how to capture that sound. Call Mutt Lange. You may spend six years in the studio, but there's no denying that the resulting album will have a HUGE sound that a lot of others just can't get.






NP: "Runaround Sue" - Dion

Answer 9

Ofcourse you need a producer. Unless someone in your band knows what those thousands of knobs on the mixing board does then youll need a producer. You wouldnt try to build a house by yourself simply because you have the necessary equipment, would you?

Answer 10

I think w/ the high-tech, small, at-home technology that's SO easily available today, no- a producer is not 100% necessary anymore....but it helps.

Anyone can buy ProTools & Garageband & make a whole album in their bedroom. Perfect conditions for a good indie album.

It was do-able in the past, but MUCH tougher & more awkward.