collective prayer - what are the odds?

Question

not so religiously put, but collective power of thoughts.

yeah, i know - some of you are convinced "The human brain and the thoughts it creates are contained within the skull. The brain neither transmits nor receives information." [recent quote from a classic]

still... recent south-korean collective prayers for releasing the hostages, strange stories about korean or vietnames gathered in circles and american planes smitten with no apparent malfunctions during those wars, safe landings of space shuttles etc. etc. etc.

is it THAT crazy?

lol - so what were the results of that study, after all?

note1: what's with the thumbs down - i don't get it; i thumb up almost everybody every time and down extremely rarely, when i am, for whatever reason, very offended by an answer. what was wrong with the comments so far?

note2: thank you very much for your inputs. i both enjoy and find them very informative.

Denie: You have both my sympathy and empathy. You look up for Matthew 18:18-20, especially the last verse, and reconsider those people intent while praying. I dunno much about American Churches, but there is a great deal into the façade when it comes for churches everywhere.

Answer 1

Unlike the YA debunkers who apparently believe that science cannot or should not be used to study all areas of knowledge (in this case the possible efficacy of prayer) I believe that you ask a valuable question where real scientist (those wishing to expand our knowledge of how the universe works) can make contributions.
Please note debunkers fail to object to research on the placebo effect.

Many studies with positive results have been conducted.
Several of these studies have been conducted by Larry Dossey, M.D. (link below).

As to your specific question of odds please allow me to provide you an answer based on science since this is the Science & Mathematics section and YA debunkers once again failed to provide a science based answer.

The odds would depend on a number of variables for instance in a healing study one would have to consider the medical condition (let's say heartattack rated on a certain level of severity), then one would have to consider the average rate of healing/recovery for such a condition.
Then one could start to calculate the odds of a patient recovering in say 2 weeks instead of the normal 6 weeks.
Of course all other variables (age of patient, sex of patient, compliance with rehab, etc. would have to be accounted for). One would also have a control group.

Thus, I would conclude that your question could be asked in the Statistics section (did YA place that under Science & Mathematics?) or in the medical section and get reasonable medical and statistics based answers.
Here as you have seen you will be asked to move to the religious section to pursue a science based experiment.

I applaud you for attempting to use the methods and tools of science (as parapsychology has done for over a century) in studying any human experience.

Answer 2

The efficacy of intercessory prayer was put to the test by the John Templeton Foundation. This is a religious organization that was seeking to prove the power of prayer. The experiment showed prayers don't help. If there were any positive data you can bet we would have heard of it.

I don't believe the South Koreans were released because of prayer. The release of the hostages correlates with the prayers but that doesn't mean the prayers caused the release of the hostages.

Answer 3

I don't know about the Korean prayer circles, but I doubt there was any proof for it besides 'we prayed and it happened' - sorry, there was a good chance it would happen anyway. Correlation does not equal causation. NASA makes sure that space shuttles land safely, not people praying for them.

There have been many studies on the efficiency of prayer, one of the most recent published in the New England Journal of Medicine. It showed no effect on a large study. Sorry, if there's no indication it works, then there's no reason to think it works.

And let's none of us forget the failed Marahashi experiment in DC where those people meditated for a month to try to reduce the violent crime rate through collective thought - and during that month, the murder rate jumped to it's highest rate ever.

Answer 4

This question seems better suited for the Religion section.If you're going to site instances with good outcomes.We should also site the not so good ones.When an event can either end badly or happily.Why are only the happy outcomes prayer related.Haven't millions of people been praying for world peace for centuries.I've included some links with scientific opinion on prayer and it's effects.Yeah they come from a Skeptic magazine.Where else does one look for another point of view.I don't pretend to understand what power is responsible for the universe.In my opinion whatever it is.It's indifferent to the concerns of humanity.http://www.csicop.org/sb/9709/baker.html

Answer 5

It is not a good poem as prayer in school is not against any rule. you are more than welcomed to pray at school anytime you'd like. The objection is to mandated group prayer. It is not fair to make people pray if it against their beliefs to do so. It will also serve to ostracize those who do not pray the way you do. In short, that poem sucks out loud.

Answer 6

All I know is that I had a LOT of church people praying for me.....for a long time...and I lost just about everything and horrible things happened to me and some of those I loved.
For Christians...Do you remember reading in the Bible where Jesus said that when you pray...go to your closet and pray to your Father in secret and your Father who hears in secret will hear and answer you. (I didn't put quotation marks because I know these aren't the exact words.Look it up.)
EDIT..I believe it's part of mind control. I've had people praying for me and I could feel it. I'd usually call them or go to their house and say "Did you call me?" or I would go to their house or call and they'd say "I was just thinking of you.". I think when used in a bad way can be a lot like voo doo.
Edit..Mirko...since all this was done to me..I don't read the Bible anymore..and I'm not able to sing Christian songs.

Answer 7

Prayer works and collective prayer works more effectively.I believe that whenever I have prayed with family or friends I have had remarkable insights into my own problems and others also had similar results.
Does it not say in the Bible"Wherever two or more are gathered in my name there I shall be in the midst of them"

Answer 8

It's not crazy. It's just that there is such poor evidence for it, and our current scientific understanding of physics and the brain doesn't predict that "thought power" as you've presented it is even possible. I'm certainly open to considering new evidence, but that's where it stands right now.

Answer 9

Its a very interesting theory and something that many groups are looking to prove is not only possible but provable.

It relies on the belief that thoughts travel in waves just like light and sound travel in waves.

There was a very interesting experiment conducted in Washington DC many years ago wherein 4000 people participated in a group meditation session. The intention was to reduce the crime in the city at that time.

Police were contacted prior, and their attitude was that it would be impossible.

After the experiment it turns out that yes the crime in fact diminished significantly. Even the police were amazed.

This experiment is also refered to in the movie "What the Bleep do we know"
If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it.

For more info on the experiment check out this website:
http://www.alltm.org/pages/crime-arrested.html

Thanks for the good question!
:)

Answer 10

The odd of them somehow psychically transmitting thier thoughts to allow the hostages to be released = 0%
The odds of God answering prayers of Christians = very good.

I gamble a little, and I will tell you, if I have to put my money down, I will put it down on God and prayers.

This answer is entirely based on faith and not on science. I do not know if answered prayers are beyond statistical chance.

edit: I agree with zachary that this should be in religion, not science.