Why can't you be pro Jewish, but anti Israel?

Question

I have always been pro Jewish, partly because I grow up in Golders Green in London, and most of my friends were Jewish. Said that, I have a SERIOUS problem with Israeli politics, both in Israel itself and global. The problem is now that A friend claim that is impossible to have that paradox, because it make no sence, BUT IT DOES! What do you think?

Answer 1

because israel is a jewish land.

Answer 2

I feel I can give a clear answer on this:

Criticising Israel is NOT anti Jewish/anti semitic

Disliking some of Israel's policies is NOT anti Jewish/anti semitic

Wanting good things for Palestinians is NOT anti Jewish/anti semitic

But criticising Israel in isolation, and out of context, is bloody unfair.

Claiming that Israel has no 'right' to even be there is RUBBISH.

Believing that the Jews just rocked up in 1948 and demanded a state is FOOLISH.

Ignoring the fact that Jews lived in Palestine for hundreds of years is UNFAIR.

Ignoring the way the Arab world rejected partition, while Jews agreed, is UNFAIR.

And to call the Israelis 'nazis' as some do IS anti Jewish, anti semitic, and a sick thing to do.

It amazes me that so many people who have never set foot in Israel are yet so confident in their opinions and condemnation of Israel.

In Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon, the Palestinians are trapped in the most terrible camps - will I read your post expressing concern about that? I hope so :)

EDIT TO HOMECHRCH

- what a brilliant and accurate answer. I hope you get voted 'best response' because you really do deserve it :)

COMMENT TO REDISCA

As ever, beautifully put :) Your point about asking if someone could be 'pro Palestinian but anti Palestine' is BRILLIANT.
Totally logical.

Answer 3

I agree with you. Well, to be more specific: being "anti-Jewish" should not be possible for a rational person. You may not feel like being Jewish yourself, but being "anti-Jewish" is as idiotic as being "anti-Canadian" IMHO.

And it's also possible to be pro-Israel and still be critical of some of their policies. I am, for example. To deny that would also be as senseless as saying that I'm pro-American (and I am an American) but never critical of anything America does.

Therefore, it's quite easy to be pro-Jewish and anti-Israel. However you should be specific as to whether or not you're opposed to some of their policies, or opposed to Israel's right to exist. That is the only place where I would draw the line. I know, I know--there are fringe factions even within Judaism that don't believe that Israel should exist now--but their arguments are a bit odd, to say the least, and even for them it's not a question of if, but when.

Answer 4

You can be anything you want to -- you just can't expect automatic endorsement of your views from people affected by them.

First of all, what do you mean by being "anti Israel"? Opposing specific policies of the Israeli government, that you would not approve or ignore in any other country is not anti-Semitic. Reflexively opposing anything and everything Israel does or does not do, up to and including Israel's very existence, just because it's Israel, IS anti-Semitic. Can you be pro-French but anti-France? Or -- to bring it home -- can you be pro-Palestinian but anti-Palestine? I didn't think so.

People can characterize their views in any way they want. There are some who claim to be "pro-Jewish" as long as Jews "behave" and stick to their proper place -- i.e. as long as Jews continue their 2000-year legacy of victimhood, as isolated and reviled minorities always at the mercy of "tolerant" anti-Semites. There are still people in this day and age that claim to be "pro-Jewish", yet describe the very existence of Jews -- not even Israel, but Jews -- as a "question", a problem, an issue that somehow needs to be addressed (by non-Jews, of course); something to be "tolerated" (and, if you think about it, "tolerance" is a terrible word when applied to ethnic groups); something that's up to a vote or depends on public opinion. Even the Nuremberg laws can be construed as "pro-Jewish", based on the token clause about "protecting" the "subhumans".

Treating Jews as you would any other people is "pro-Jewish". Subjecting us to different standards and denying us the only thing that can ensure our survival in a still largely hostile world clearly is not.

Answer 5

Well, you haven't specified exactly how you are "anti Israel" so it is kind of hard to judge the situation without knowing your specific views.

But, let me make something clear. Even though it is certainly possible that someone can be anti Zionist/Israel and not anti Semitic, nevertheless, a lot of what is labeled as anti Zionism actually is.

So, if your criticisms of the state of Israel are anti Semitic in nature then, no, you cannot claim to be philo semitic at the same time.

But, if not, then, yes, there is no contradiction.

Nevertheless, that doesn't necessarily make you correct on the issue or immune to criticism.

Answer 6

It certainly makes no sense. Israel is a democracy and the Government (comprising mostly Jews) is the result of free and fair election by Jews mostly. You may object to policies and actions of the Government but it does not make one anti-Israel. It is the Homeland of the Jewish People. Shalom (what a lovely greeting)

Answer 7

that's like being pro-american but anti-usa.

israel is the homeland of the jewish people, and always has been. you may have noticed that jewish people are not treated well by arab governments, so if israel were destroyed or disbanded, millions of jews would be in big trouble.

but be clear.
israel is a democracy, like the US, with full civil rights for all citizens, jewish or arab.
that means that it is totally okay to criticize the actions of the israeli government. it happens every day in israeli newspapers, tv and radio, and on the street. just like in america, it's part of a healthy democracy.
the only think that makes no sense is to be anti-israel in the sense that you want israel to not exist. just like you can criticize the british government but not call for the destruction of england, so too can you criticize the israeli government without saying that israel shouldn't exist.

so how do you feel? do you have problems with israeli politics, but recognize that it's a country and is not going anywhere? or are you anti-israel meaning against the existence of israel. the former is fine. the latter is hateful and anti-semitic.
it's a very clear and easy distinction. i criticize my own country, the USA, all the time, but i never want to see it destroyed.


and i'd love to know what your problems are. many people are very misinformed about israel. tell us what the problem is, and give us a chance to defend her.

Answer 8

Makes perfect sense to me, you support the Jewish people, but cannot agree with the politics of Israel, however it is the politics you dislike, I imagine you could accept Israel if you could accept the politics.
If the idea of the country of Israel is what you don't like, then in a way you dislike something of the Jewish people who live there by choice, in this case you cannot be pro Jewish, because you would deny them what is to them their home land.
I do not agree with much of the political decisions which come out of Israel. But I love the Jewish people.

Answer 9

While criticism of an Israeli policy may not be anti-Semitic, the denial of Israel's right to exist is always anti-Semitic. If other peoples have a right to live securely in their homelands, then the Jewish people have a right to live securely in their homeland.

Answer 10

You can be whatever you want. Others don't have to set your agenda for you.

Personally, I feel being 'pro' or 'anti' a whole country or race based on some policies is simply ridiculous and helps fuel the atmosphere and intolerance which has made it impossible for peaceful people to arrive at any intelligent resolution in the middle east without the interference of zealots and fanatics.

I'm 'anti' bomb throwing fanatics of every kind, but 'pro' the efforts of people to find safe homes and lives for their families, regardless of where they come from or what their religious persuasion is.

People who insist on 'our land' regardless of how many of their children's blood fertilises the soil leave me unmoved, but people trying to repair limbs ripped from the bodies of children by forgotten landmines are heroes, regardless of whether they go to the Mosque or the Synagogue to pray ~ or choose to pray nowhere and do what they do for the love of humanity alone.

If the only way we can ever see these questions is to decide which 'side' we'll take, there will NEVER be a way through.

Best wishes :-)

Answer 11

Who Say's you CAN'T be pro Jewish and anti Israel ???
Personally though, looking at where Israel is located I would take the same stance against these Muslim nut cases.
Self preservation HAS to be No 1.