What do you think about counting shootout games as ties for goalies?

Question

The goal scorers in the shootout don't get goals added to their total. The saves a goalie makes don't get added up in their season and career totals. So why is one goalie given a win and the other is given a loss?
The whole shootout concept bothers me because it inflates the wins total for both teams and goalies. Through the history of the NHL, the games that remained tied after OT counted as ties for goalies and their teams. First, the NHL changes the OT to 4 on 4 and guarantees the loser a point which leaves the teams with nothing to lose at all and much more open ice to score an OT winner. Then, the NHL takes that one step further and adds the shootout, which guarantees a winner every night.
The result of this is inflation of team and goalie records. Goalies are setting wins records without actually having as great a season as the old record holder did. Teams are breaking franchise points and wins records.
Brodeur is going to pass Roy for wins; are his wins the same as Roy's?

Answer 1

1. First
Roy won 118 games in OT in his regular season career.
Brodeur has won 67.
So, based on that, Brodeur already has more regulation time wins than Roy
Of course, in that case, Plante still leads them all.

2. Second
I agree with you. Right now, if a game goes into a shootout when tied 0-0, both goalies get a shutout. After the shootout, one goalie has a win to go along with his shutout, one has a loss.

How do you your great grandchildren that great grandad only played one game in the NHL, and he got a shutout....but I lost.

It doesn't make sense. As you say....none of the stats past the end of the OT count for individuals.

The other reason to give goalies a tie
- currently, the total number of GWG's does not equal a teams win total. The NHL stats department has no problems with that. So who cares if the total of the goalies wins does not equal a team's win total. Give both goalies ties!

Finally, prior to 1989-90, in a tie game, a player from each team received credit for a game tying goal. Beginning in 1989-90, only the player that scored the final goal of the game got credit for a game tying goal. So, prior to 1989-90, the number of GTG's on each team equalled number the ties the team had. Statring in in 1989-90, the number of ties a team had was greater than the number of goals the individuals had.

So, there is no consistency now (and the league does not care) so I see no reason why goaltender totals can not reflect the same statistical anomalies.

Answer 2

I agree with you 100% that Brodeur's wins do not equal Roy's wins, but we must count shootout games as wins for goalies (if they win). Here's why; if a game ends in regulation 3-1, the winning goalie may have only faced 15 shots, he still gets the W even though we can't say that he was a main reason the team won the game. Now, if a game goes to a shootout, and the goalie stops all three shooters, while only one of his teammates scores, then we can truly say that he was a main reason the team won the game, he stopped 3 of 3 shootout shots.

Brodeur's wins do not equal Roy's wins because Roy did not have the opportunity to play for a win after the game was played to a tie, it's a pretty simple concept. If there were shootouts in Roy's day, who knows how many more wins he would have tacked on. cme: you must be smoking something, lmao jkjk

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Loblaw and LITY; you seem to have misunderstood me. A win is a win, but because Brodeur gets to play for a win after OT; it gives him an edge over Roy, who did not get to do that. Brodeur may even pass Roy not counting his SO wins, but that wasn't my point.

Let me make a very simple example; every team in the NHL plays 82 games, if one team had to play only 60 games, while everyone else still played 82, wouldn't you think that's unfair? If that team finishes the season with 80 points, while the 8th place team in the West finishes with 98; is it fair to compare those two teams??? No, of course not, this is the same with Roy and Brodeur; Brodeur has an edge that Roy did not have.

Answer 3

Let's see. Shootouts make ice hockey more exciting and the reason that a goalie doesn't get SV/GA is b/c he takes at least 3 breakaways. It could dramatically change the stats. Shootouts help decide a winner, so whichever goalie does better, gets the win. I play in a roller hockey league (PIHA-normally play 4 on 4) where the OT is a four minutes 3 vs 3. If it is still tied, it goes to a three min 2vs2. (It used to go to a 1v1, but there were probles where the player that won the faceoff would pass to the goalie behind the net and he would hold it there for the entire 2 min of 1v1 and give it to his player w/10-20 s left so they could have the one and only rush.) If it is still tied i then goes to a shootout. Do you think something like this would be decent in the NHL?

Answer 4

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Answer 5

Good question and one I agree with- I guess they could just have an extra category for SO wins too.


Mike- when all is said and done- you can take away Brodeur's SO wins and he will still have more than Roy and once again, to discredit a win because he faced less shots is silly. Once again as well, save % can be a stat in determining how many saves they made in relation to shots. Roy had a .910 and Brodeur has a .913 over their careers so once again Brodeur comes out on top. Goalies will actually tell you that it is alot easier for them to face 30 shots instead of 10, further discrediting your notion.

Answer 6

I like ties (I own about 3 of them - none of which go with my fedora)


Mikey
How about a baseball analogy
Should we cheapen a pitcher's win total because he won 11-9 instead of 2-1?

A win is a win.

A goaltender's job is to let fewer pucks in than his team scores.

Here's a stat for you.............if Grant Fuhr had been Edmonton's starting goaltender (and Andy Moog always played more) he would have about 150 more wins. But his GAA would still be a gazillion. Do you discount them?

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Answer 8

I got a better idea. How about we play the same game from start to finish without the gimmicks. The winner gets 2 points and the loser gets nothing. If it goes into overtime, the winner gets 2 points and the loser gets nothing. I can live with the 4 on 4 for regular season overtime, that's about as radical as my thinking goes..
And yes, Brodeur's wins are just as valuable as Roy's.

Answer 9

Bah! Cme said it. Lets go back to the older and purer rules/game. Shootouts are a gimmick that were brought in to make the game more exciting,thus 'supposedly' bringing in ,more fans. Since that obviously is not working, it is time to revert back to the old to lessen the chances that older fans actually stop being such.

Answer 10

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