Why do so many men have so little self-respect? Why are there so many men willing to debase themselves?

Question

Inspired by this question: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqAweG7Kzu4D9.wdCEzDQuMYxgt.;_ylv=3?qid=20071202151844AAQDDQ3

When women debase themselves, many feminists account for such behavior in terms of coercion, a history of childhood abuse, the crippling effects of the media on women's self-esteem, and/or the oppressiveness of patriarchy in brainwashing women into thinking they don't deserve any better.

What sort of explanation makes sense for men?

Answer 1

It doesn't matter to these people what we think, they believe they are in control of the sexual relationship, whether they are the one dominating or being dominated, since it's a ritualized form of sexual play. I've seen stat's that some people who are involved in these types of sexual roles may have been sexually abused, but many have not. I don't really understand this type of sexual relationship, but it is popular not just among heterosexuals, but homosexuals and lesbians as well.

As long as people are adults and willfully consenting, I try not to judge. If these roles were not related to sexuality, then I would consider this behavior as debasing, but sexuality is so unfathomable...

Answer 2

You have two completely different situations with these quarterbacks. Peyton typically has some of the very best stats in the league. And normally the mistakes you see him make are ones at the end of the game where he's trying to salvage the game because the other portions of his team didn't do their job. For example, while he was with the Colts, the Colts defense nearly never stopped the the other team from driving down the field. Their defense was called a "bend, don't break defense". They'd let the other team drive all the way down the field. It wasn't considered a break unless the other team scored a touchdown. But either way, the other team was likely getting a field goal, a touchdown, or putting Peyton in really bad field position due to the Colts bad defense. Peyton didn't choke, a quarterback can only do so much to rescue a team from the mistakes the rest of the team makes. Flacco on the other hand is a quarterback where the team rescues the quarterback. Flacco typically is ranked 15th-17th in stats. Last year he was ranked 12th. And without his veterans, Flacco lost 4 out of the last 5 regular season games. With the Ravens having lost so much talent, it may be hard for them to even make the playoffs with as bad as Flacco performs. My point is. I wouldn't call Peyton a choker. His Super Bowl Championship in 2006 was with the lowest ranked defense to ever win a Super Bowl. Not to mention he set an AFC Championship record for the largest comeback in AFC Championship history. His 2009 Super Bowl appearance and what should have been a perfect season was done with a new head coach and his 2 top wide receivers both gone and the rest of his receivers consisting of a 6th rounder from the year before that was very drop prone, a 4th round rookie, and the rest were all undrafted. Let's see any other quarterback accomplish such feats with such a poor supporting cast of players. Peyton this year has some added weapons with Welker and Montee Ball like he's never had before. The only thing still questionable is Denver's defense.

Answer 3

The question that inspired yours was about debasement in service of a sexual desire. In that respect, the answer is easy. Such men are willing to debase themselves because it is a sexual turn on. If you are asking why this type of debasement would be a turn-on for men, childhood sexual abuse has been touted as a possible cause. But I don't think anyone has a good understanding of the breadth of possibilities when it comes to male sexual arousal. Personally, I like the evolutionary model. From a species survival point of view, it is in the male's interest to spread their seed as far and as wide as possible. Those who are aroused by being humiliated are going to get a chance to procreate in that situation. So, why not? Such a prediliction doesn't get weeded out because the masochistic male continues to procreate and the cycle continues.

Answer 4

Well, men who are into debasing themselves have been around for quite some time, most notably in Victorian England. Perhaps, in their case, it was some guilt trip about the power they wielded that motivated them to seek abuse and degradation at the hands of a woman.

Currently, there seems to be an EXPLOSION of men willing to be debased beyond recognition. The most plausible explanation is that our cultural climate has made men ashamed to be men.

What else could it be? The imbalances between Supply and Demand has and always will be equalized via capital, not degradation. In other words, if there are 20 men and only one woman in a room, the woman essentially goes to the highest bidder (i.e., the wealthiest). It doesn't go to the one who grovels the most.

I maintain it's because we're being shamed for being men. It's having an effect on the self-image of many men, but I don't think anybody really gives a flyung fick about that.

Answer 5

This is, by no means, my area of expertise. I think men who seek sexual gratification tied to sadism at the hands of a dominatrix are interested in that because they were abused by some female at some time.
And, paralleling my answer to the cited question, I think that these men believe that they are still, when it is all over, in control and that they are convinced that they have nothing to fear. It is just a game. This kind of stuff is not, in the least, interesting to me. What people do is none of my business.
I am glad these folk can find each other.
Edit: I agree with those speaking about domestic violence. I didn't think that this question related to that.
C. :)!!

Answer 6

The question you are referencing has nothing to do with men who have little or no self-respect or that are willing to debase themselves. It is simply a question of sexual preference.

I have heard the arguments that you've made in reference to women who enjoy these sexual practices so I understand where you are coming from when asking why these apply only to women and not to men.

The trouble I have with the argument (regardless of which gender it applies to) is that the submissive partner in an D/s relationship is the one in power. The dominate partner has only the illusion of power in that they must respect the submissive's safe word. The Dom is not able to go any further than the sub allows them to go.

These types of sex games are not about debasement or defilement, they are about consenting adults engaging in acts that are done out of love and respect for both parties involved.

Answer 7

In the United States, they learn self-contempt in government-mismanaged schools, public or private so-called--where they were supposed to learn to care about scientific definitions, justice, truth, constitutional rights, regulations,responsibilities and honor.

Don't ask why someone does something stupid--ask against whom his action is aimed. A person debasing himself is punishing his parents, "the system", the school authorities as well as himself.

In a statist and unfree country) such as the U.S., has become) under imperial presidential public interest benevolent totalitarians, males are put under pressure not to show emotions, sit in on place, obey orders and pretend to be macho types. Social pressures, desire to impress peers, a failed educational system that treats minds as
prisoners...it's all bad.

Answer 8

For either gender, I don't associate any sort of consensual, sexual play with self-respect, nor matter how strange it may be, even to me.

Whether or not there is participation in d/s, SOME people have been abused and SOME have not, the issue of abuse is not primarily (in my opinion) why some people are attracted to being submissive or dominant during certain forms of sexual play.
It is easier to simply categorise what we don't understand as rooted from abusive and/or dysfunctional upbringing, yet interestingly, there are people who have been raised in "ideal" families, consisting of religious and/or "proper" upbringing, yet are attracted to what is considered "perverted".

The way I see it, I have my preferences, and other people have theirs, as long as it is consensual, sexual expression is part of human nature, in all its forms, whether or not some of those interests may or may not be for me, is not my concern, but that people identify and express themselves as they truly are, not what their society classifies as "appropriate".

Edit: Ikydragn and Waswisgirl1... well said, in my opinion.

Answer 9

You're confusing masochism as a sexual passion with human debasement. I've never been involved in an S&M relationship, but my understanding is that despite the objections of outsiders, all parties are usually submitting willfully because they enjoy what is going on.

Answer 10

I personally know two men who have been victims of domestic violence. And I can tell you what they have told me: they stayed in the relationship because they felt they couldn't talk about what was happening to them. They felt ashamed of being men who were being abused by their wives. They didn't want anyone else to know. They also cited reasons concerning what was best for the kids. They believed that if they left, the kids would be left at the mercy of the abuser. They felt the need to stay and protect the children. They also believed that if they left, the women would use the kids as a means to punish them. (They believed that the wives would not allow them to see the kids. And they believed the children would be brainwashed and manipulated, and turned against them.) These guys also feared physical retaliation- stalking, threats, and both of them feared they might actually be killed if they left. And, these men feared they had no one they could turn to for help or support or protection if they did choose to leave. They feared the police and court system would not adequately protect them. They had nowhere to go. No emotional support. They felt utterly trapped.

EDIT: Personal anecdote here: When I went before a judge to request a restraining order against my abusive ex-husband, I witnessed something very highly disturbing to me. There was a room full of people who were there for the very same reason as I was, and I watched and listened to many cases before mine. One man asked the judge for a restraining order against his girlfriend. He was cited MANY instances of harm, stalking, and abuse. The judge denied his request for the restraining order. She gave no explanation for this. However, every WOMAN who asked for a restraining order (including myself) was granted one, whether the woman cited many instances of abuse or not. I was very nervous when it came to my turn to speak. I could not even find the words to explain what I wanted to say. All I could get out was that I feared for my life. She granted the restraining order. No questions asked. Now it is my sincere belief that the man who was denied the restraining order had every reason to be granted one, and then some. Yet he was denied. And there are times since that my thoughts go back to this man, and I pray that he's o.k. and STILL ALIVE.
The reason I tell you this story is because it does seem to be true that men have a much more difficult time being taken seriously by those who are in positions to help them. It's no wonder they feel they have no support and they feel trapped, misunderstood, and discriminated against in this type of situation.