And that his 102 mph fastball could mow down hitters of today.
2007-11-28 14:54:07 · 12 answers · asked by Anthony F 1 in Sports ➔ Baseball
Wow, look at the varying opinions, isn't America great? By the way, Grove easily matched if not topped even Koufax's stellar 62'-66' run.
2007-11-28 15:29:49 · update #1
I am...him...or Walter Johnson..
Grove was better...shorter...
Big Train was better...longer..
Bill James used to call it peak value...vs. career value..
Like who would you rather have....Koufax for 6 years...or Spahn for 25 years..
At his best...Grove is the guy..
I think he led the league in ERA 7 times..take that back...9 times he led the league in ERA...pitching in Fenway Park...As a lefty...think about that a second..
If the Baltimore Orioles had sold him 2-3 years earlier, and he had some 600-900 more innings under his belt...and narrowed that 2000 inning career gap between him and Johnson....it would be a no-doubter.
I would caution you though...resist the urge to pick him up and put him in todays game...
Mikan was the geatest in his time...but Andrew Bynum would make him look silly today..
You think Red Grange would make it today...or Jim Thorpe....
Every swimming record, track and field record...weightlifting..you name it...all those records from the 30's have been broken..
If the track, swimming, field, basketball and football athletes are all better today...and they are....clearly......why is there this persistent nostalgia that the only athletes worse today than 70 years ago are ballplayers?
Say it ain't so, Joe...'cause it ain't.
Grove was the best ever..almost without a doubt..
He pitched in the only game and era he knew...and dominated like none before, or since.
That's good enough for me..
Hope this helps..
Ohhh...one final thing....it's true that Clemens has done it in a big hitters era....but Grove did it in the biggest hitters era...those years where some guy was hitting .400 or close every 3rd year or so...where teams hit .300...guys drove in 190 runs..
2007-11-28 15:48:04 · answer #1 · answered by Steve M 3 · 3⤊ 0⤋
We can all pick one of a number of great pitchers and make an argument, by throwing numbers around to meet our needs, that one or the other was the best. I have said this before on this site that I don't believe any pitcher was more of a dominating force on the mound than Koufax during those magical four years in the early 1960's. When so many of the great players of his time say he was the best it would be difficult to take an opposing viewpoint. I saw Koufax pitch many times and I can tell you that I have never seen anything like him to this day, and that includes Gibson, Ryan, Clemens, Seaver, and all the others.
2007-11-29 12:19:41 · answer #2 · answered by Frizzer 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
He is one of the greatest, but not the greatest. That title belongs to Cy Young or Walter Johnson. I have never heard that Grove had a 102 mph fastball, and it's somewhat doubtful, especially considering ballplayers in his time were smaller and weaker than they are today.
2007-11-28 23:53:53 · answer #3 · answered by dude_in_disguise2004 4 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Bill James would certainly agree with you. In one edition of the "Historical Baseball Abstract" he called Grove "the greatest pitcher of all time, period. And he's the only 300-game winner who won over twice as many games as he lost. While I wouldn't necessarily agree he was the greatest ever, it's hard to have the conversation without his name coming up.
2007-11-29 02:19:42 · answer #4 · answered by JerH1 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
no, the greatest pitcher ever was mark fidrych
okay, maybe not the greatest but my personal favorite
no really.
it's leroy paige
he dominated a superior league in the 30's and 40's. made his MLB debut in the 50's, way past his prime and still won a ROY and dominated a bunch of inferior white players. he would pull all of his position players off the field except his catcher and still get out of an inning. he was the most dominant pitcher ever.
2007-11-29 03:01:43 · answer #5 · answered by joe 6 · 0⤊ 1⤋
I consider him one of the top three, along with Walter Johnson and Clemens, and I can rank them in any order depending on exactly what I want "greatest" to be.
2007-11-28 23:43:37 · answer #6 · answered by Chipmaker Authentic 7 · 1⤊ 0⤋
I can almost go along with you on this but 511 wins in a career speaks volumes about greatness --- gotta go with the man that the award is named after --- Denton True Young.
2007-11-28 23:22:59 · answer #7 · answered by no1nyyfan55 4 · 1⤊ 0⤋
I have to go with Clemens. To put up his career in a hitters era goes a long way.
2007-11-28 23:14:24 · answer #8 · answered by Shawn C 3 · 3⤊ 0⤋
I don't think any pitcher will ever come close to comparing to the legendary Sidd Finch.
2007-11-29 00:15:32 · answer #9 · answered by winthrop4life 2 · 2⤊ 0⤋
My vote goes to Christy Mathewson. I don't like comparing old players to modern day players because so many variables have changed.
2007-11-28 22:58:56 · answer #10 · answered by Anonymous · 3⤊ 1⤋