Not your ordinary Johan Santana question?

Question

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My question is, why are people here undervaluing the skills, career, and impact of Johan Santana?

I see a lot of answers saying that Ian Kennedy, Philip Hughes and Joba Chamberlain shouldn't be included in a deal to bring Santana to the Yankees.

Are you people crazy, or do you just not know enough about Santana?

Santana is 28 years old, with a career record of 93-44 (.679 %.) That is the 6th best winning percentage in the history of baseball.

He has won 2 Cy Young Awards, and 1 pitching Triple Crown.

He's led the league in WHIP the last 4 seasons, and his career WHIP of 1.069 is 16th best all-time.

He has pitched over 200 innings the last 4 seasons, and has also had over 230 strikeouts in each of those seasons.

His strikeouts per 9 innings is 9.50 (5th all-time.)

His strikeout to walk ratio is 3.79 (6th all-time.)

The man will be a legitimate ace for years to come, and is the most dominating pitcher in the game.

You wouldn't give up any of those guys for him???
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yankee fan - that's a TON of "what ifs". You already know what you're getting with Santana - brilliance. "What if" only 1 of these guys goes on to be a great starter?
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I | A | X - good points, but I don't need to "educate" myself. If I didn't know the background of these players, I wouldn't be asking this question that I filled with data.
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Answer 1

I completely agree with you...they would be getting a proven number one starter for maybes...to quote another answer "What if Ian, Joba, AND Hughes all become great pitchers and you trade 2 of them away from Santana."...yeah but what if those three all turn out to be career end of rotation guys? The Yankees would be getting a sure thing for a group of what ifs.

Answer 2

Really good points Kris.
Despite what guys 'may' be, Santana is.

Remember Brien Taylor. Best thing since sliced bread. Never made it to the majors.

The Twins will lose Santana, if he hasn't signed by spring training, he won't and I don't think the Twins have enough to pay him and stay competitive (see Rangers, Texas vs. Rodriguez, Alex - 2001)

However, in the grand scheme of things, the goals of the teams involved are different.
The twins want all they can for Santana and the other team want Santana.

The strength of the return for the team is how long they can sign him so that they are paying him while he's effective.
At 28 or 29. For Santana, that may be 6 years, it may be 8. If he's like Randy Johnson, then it may be 10.

On the other hand, people, especially on YA, have had a typically optimistic view of some of these players.

In a question asking for the top 10 pitchers of all time, 2 people actually listed Joba Chamberlain, owner of less than 30 major league innings.

Teams hype players to keep your interest and people that only watch single teams do not see the difference between hype and potential.

Living near a medium budget team, I will say that I would not want the Blue Jays to sign Santana because the difference in salary would kill any balance on a team.

Answer 3

this trade seems to be a faustian bargain... a proven pitcher for developing young pitchers out of the Yankee farm system... Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy are still young and immature with their pitching in the majors. However, they did extremely well last season under the circumstances of playing under one of the most pressured teams in the MLB. Not to mention what the media portrays to the public (A-Rod and Scott Boras overbearing contract, Joe Torre's chances of losing his managerial job, Giambi's steroids use, Clemens retirement conspiracy, George Steinbrenner's health, and etc.) and the supposedly "disloyal" fan base that gives the cold shoulder when not satisfied. With the proper training from a good pitching coach/staff and experience over the next course of a few years, the Yankees pitching may become unstoppable. When looking back at Joba's pitching performances as a closer, it was very impressive. It's somewhat of a reminder of how Rivera was when he first started with the Yankees...and i'm pretty sure that we could all agree that Rivera is by far one of the best closers in MLB history

Answer 4

In order to make the trade the Yankees are going to have to part with those prospects. There's a reason for that they're giving up their best pitcher for unknowns. None of the 3 pitching prospects of Chamberlain, Kennedy, and Hughes has proven anything, yet where as Santana has proven it with his pitching. The Twins are getting the unknown with the 3 prospects that's why the Twins will also receive a player like Cano who's already proven. The Yankees already know what they will get from Santana. I can't blame the Twins for asking such a steep price for their best player especially after losing Hunter to the Angels.
In all honesty though even if Santana does go to the Yankees it doesn't take away the problem they have in their bullpen as well as starting rotation. So they finally get an ace for the staff but, Wang, Pettite, Mussina, Clemens, Hughes, and Kennedy are either aging or haven't proven anything. So the Yanks are still in a situation where they will need to keep some of those pitching prospects around so they can make trades for middle aged starters who aren't soon going to be arthritic.

Answer 5

There will always be skeptics trying make the glass look half empty instead of half full. In this case I would have to agree that Santana has shown his value to anyone who will eventually get him. I think the concern, if any, would be the amount of innings he has pitched over the past 4 seasons, (200 plus), but he's young enough still to handle it.

He has had some arm issues but and his ERA climbs to over 3 last season. However most pitcher in baseball today would kill for a 3.33 ERA. As far as a 15-13 record, so what? He has most of his career in front of him. I think he is well worth the risk. Hell, the Yankees have enough money to eventually buy back anyone they trade away. It's the Steinbrenner way, unfortunately.

I say if the Yankees or any other team can get him, they really have an obligation to themselves and their fans to do so.

Answer 6

First i'll say this! The Twins ARE NOT ASKING FOR 2 OF OUR YOUNG PITCHERS! They want one! Either Chamberlian,Hughes,or Kennedy! and Milky with one other player from the farm! I would never ever part with Chamberlain,he is unbelivable! And proved it this yr! And the yankee are not going to give him up! I really like Hughes,After he got off the Dl he really came around and did a great Job,Kennedy i can take or leave,You have to remember,We got burned big time with alot of BIG TIME PITCHERS! Pavano,Brown,Johnson,Wright,the list go's on and on, and on.How do we know Santana will handle ny well? Not everyone who comes to NY can pitch well!Just like Gayne couldn't close a game at boston! I really like these young pitchers we have,But on the other hand!!! WE NEED ANOTHER LEFTY!! I hope Cashman and Stienbrenner think long and hard about this before they give up the farm! Some of these answers are amazing! Here are fans of other teams always PISSING AND MOANING about how the yankees buy all the best players! Now here we yankee fans are Loving our team,, and not wanting to give our young arms up for Santana. And everyone is ragging on us,saying how STUPID WE ARE! We're damned if we do,,and we're damned if we don't! GO FIGURE!!

Answer 7

Ok. I'm from Minnesota and know a little bit about this issue. To be honest, I'm tired of the Santana-Yankees talks. Here is what the Twins will NEED in return if they are in fact willing to give up Santana (which it looks like they will at this point.)

They will need at least two young starting pitchers and a position player. You can think of any three combinations you want, but that is all speculation until next weeks Winter Meetings.

Answer 8

As you stated, Santana's has an impressive career, but so have many superstars who have come to NY, and did mediocre or failed miserably - here are a few - Bobby Bonilla, Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens (if you look at his #'s, 3 of his 6 years in the Bronx were sub-par), Carlos Baerga, Carlos Delgado, Jack McDowell, Chuck Knoblaugh, Bret Saberhagen, Vince Coleman, Jason Giambi, Johnny Damon, and Mike Mussina. Let's not forget the MEGASTAR - Arod, who up until this season, had respectable #'s with the yanks, but not the mega #'s (until 07') everyone predicted. Even with his 2005 MVP, fans were booing him and calling for his head. Some stars came to NY and gave us what we expected if not more - like Reggie, Piazza, and David Cone, but there are far more failures than success stories. Will Santana be as successful in NY as he was in Minnesota? It it worth giving up all this potential in these young studs? I say no.

Answer 9

3 people for a 29 year old pitcher is stupid. Sure he is a great pitcher,. but don't forget that what if will also apply to him. In a perfect world, you would want to add him to your team without giving up young and promising talent.
Cano could be our future hall of famer. he is a good 2nd baseman on defense and will give you 30 and 120, will bat above 300 and he is only 25. A lefty in the Yankee stadium....
Phil Hughes, who is often compared with Scott Kazmir, was the best pitcher in the minors, hasn't lived up tp the hype, but while injured, he posted league average numbers despite being a 21 year old, something not even Santana and Kazmir did when they were rookies. The guy has clocked 96-97 mph, compared to Ian kennedy at 92, who is more of a control pitcher like Mussina, but not a swing and a miss guy like Hughes and Joba who overpower the batters, your typical game winning pitchers. Surely the Twins are not interested in Kennedy.
Melky is a great outfielder who will be a decent hitter, if not a great one, but the kid can run and field. You give up him. sure you can try to go for Aaron Rowand, who is 30 but if that doesn't work out, we don't want to put Damon in the Center field. We all know how it went before he was sent to the left field and Matusi became the DH.
Santana is also coming off a mediocre season, and seriously, there are more ifs attached with him, compared with 3 young guys who we will give up if we don't know better.
Besides, The money, 25 million or so, despite never being a problem for the Yankees, is too much for a pitcher.

As for Joba, he really is untouchable.

best strategy is to keep the money, keep the talent and let these youngsters develop.

here is a little something you wanna read about Phil Hughes to educate yourself.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-rise-of-philip-hughes/

Edit: Well, if you knew, you wouldn't ask this question. Think. Then Think again.

Not questioning your intelligence, but education should be an ongoing process for all of us.

Answer 10

Remember when the Mets had that great young group of pitching prospects they'd never part with? You know - Bill Pulsipher, Jason Isringhausen and Paul Wilson? While Isringhausen eventually became a decent closer, Wilson won 40 games for his career and Pulsipher won 13.

The Yankees have some great young arms, but there's nothing that says the same thing couldn't happen. You have to take the proven commodity when given the chance.