Johan Santana: Do You Know?

Question

in 2007 the Cleveland Indians faced Johan Santana 5 times and went 5-0 against him. Santana is not invincible. If people are still critical of CC Sabathia folding like a cheap accordion in the ALCS, what about a stat like 0-5 against a team that beat the NYY in the 2007 ALDS and could have even with Santana? Having Santana in 2007 in the ALDS clearly would not have guaranteed victory. So - is the guy really worth mortgaging the farm for? As an Indians fan, Santana going to the NYY does not faze me at all. Not when the Tribe was 5-0 against him.

Answer 1

This is similar to my bone of contention and why I hope the Yankees don't get into the Santana Derby. Yahoo Sports update on this issue states, "The New York Daily News has installed the New York Yankees as a 3-1 favorite in the race to acquire Johan Santana of the Minnesota twins. The Boston Red Sox are 4-1, the Los Angeles Angels are 5-1 and the New York Mets 8-1.

"It's no secret that the Yankees would love to add the lefthanded ace to their rotation, but at what price? They have made it clear that Joba Chamberlain is untouchable, although Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy can be had for the right price - and Santana, who will be 29 on March 13, could be that player.

"Red Sox are in strong position to deal for Santana, since they possess two blue-chip pitching prospects in Clay Buchholz and Jon Lester, and a solid young center fielder in Jacoby Ellsbury. The Twins have no interest in Coco Crisp, who is guaranteed $11 million over the next two years. The Mets' biggest problem might be the lack of a big-time pitching prospect to counter Hughes or Buchholz. Mike Pelfrey, Philip Humber and Kevin Mulvey are nice arms, but they don't approach what the Yankees and Red Sox can offer."

The other side of the coin is that, just like the Indians, the Yankees have not been stymied by this guy, so regardless of who gets him in the AL doesn't concern me. The price of Cabrera, Chamberlain, and either Hughes or Kennedy is way too dear in my mind, and would create more voids than what it could solve.

Also, thumbs up to alomew_rocks for asking one of the better questions here and Craig S for his answer. After the past few days this is almost refreshing, but I'm sure some of the less informed and the haters will show up to destroy this question as well.

Answer 2

The Tribe may have been 5-0 against Santana. That's great for the Tribe, but Santana is still a hell of a pitcher. I'd love to have him because just like the Indians Sabathia, Santana always seems to have my White Sox number. If the Yankees get him it's a shame, because the Yankees don't need him, or like other superstars the Yanks have acquired in the past they'll ruin him.

Answer 3

Hey man I am as big a Tribe fan as you and I can tell you that I felt like a million bucks every time we beat him this year. I will say this though. Even when we kicked his butt in the early innings he still seemed to settle down and pitch 6 innings and keep it fairly close. If he were to go the Yankees I could see some of those Indians wins going the other way seeing that the NY lineup is a little more fierce than the Twins. Bottom line I hope he does go to the Yankees. It means we face him twice at most in a season rather than 5 or 6 times.

Answer 4

Okay let's take a minute to look at things logically here...because that doesn't seem to be what's happening with Santana-haters.

First and foremost, he's the best pitcher in baseball. Period. There is no arguement. There is no equal. He is the best pitcher in baseball. Any and every team in baseball should be bending over backwards to add him to their rotation.

The Yankees are going to have to part with the promising young talent they have to get him, b/c if they don't make the trade, they've got no shot at acquiring him b/c someone WILL make the trade and that will lock Johan up long-term.

Now let's get down to the nitty gritty as we talk about Johan and Hughes' respective records against the Indians.

Phil Hughes has one regular season start against the Indians. In that start he went six innings and gave up one run while receiving six runs of support from the Yankees offense.

On the contrary, in Johan's five losses against the Indians he got beat up a bit, but was only given eight runs of support over those five losses.

You do the math. If Hughes gets six runs of support in one game and Santana gets eight over five. Only one of those games did he get beat by more than 2 runs. Thus proving that even without a potent offensive attack he can keep good lineups in check.

Perhaps as a Yankee fan you'd like to take note that Santana is statistically superior to every other starter on the team or maybe what you need to see is that Johan holds a career 3-0 record with a 2.66 ERA AGAINST the Yankees. Call me crazy, but wouldn't you rather have him for you than against you?

If that's not enough how about his career numbers against the rest of the EAST...the teams he'd be playing the bulk of his games against...

Red Sox - 9 GS, 4 W, 3.40 era, 1.24 whip, 58 k
Blue Jays - 7 GS, 3 W, 4.84 era, 1.34 whip, 52 k
Orioles - 7 GS, 4 W, 3.76 era, 1.22 whip, 63 k
Devil Rays - 7 GS, 3 W, 2.79 era, 1.01 whip, 76 k

The only number that isn't glaringly impressive is his ERA against Toronto, which is due to one game where he got shelled in 2004 for 7 runs in 3 innings, driving his ERA through the roof against Toronto.

Take into account his career numbers pitching at Yankee Stadium...3 GS, 2 W, 1.17 ERA, 1.00 WHIP and 23 K.

Give me one good reason why the Yankees wouldn't want to pounce all over Santana?!

Answer 5

The guy the Yankees are considering putting into a package for Santana, Phillip Hughes, has actually done better against the Indians than Santana has. Not only that, but Santana's record in postseason play is exactly the same as Chien-Ming Wang's: 1-3. Santana is not a proven postseason performer, and getting him does not improve the Yankees' chances over relying on a rotation of Wang, Hughes, Andy Pettitte, Mike Mussina another of the young pitchers. Do not make this trade unless you want to sacrifice the future. In other words, Mets and Red Sox... go ahead. Make MY day.

Answer 6

He was 0-5 against the Tribe, but his 4.38 ERA wasn't really that terrible. Not what you'd expect of him, but he certainly should have won at least one of those games if the Twins had scored a few runs. If he was to give up 4 runs as a Yankee, chances are their offense would score enough runs to get him the win.

Besides, I wouldn't read too much into a 5-game sample size. It's pretty irreleveant statistically, and I don't think it can be used as a measure of future performance.

Answer 7

If he did do it then he's a huge idiot. He's a superstar in the MLB, makes a ton of money and has a family. I really hope that this is a false story because I always assumed Johan was a mild mannered type of guy.

Answer 8

Michael - you'd rather have Philip Hughes than Johan Santana? Or are you just making comparison on a 5 game (over only 1 season) body of work?
.

Answer 9

Santanas ERA was 4.38. NOT the ERA the Yankees want out of Santana but a ERA that could definitely guarantee the Yankees a win! They will easily score more then 4 runs don't you think?

Answer 10

thats a very impotant stat, but i wouldnt count on the yankees getting, there are other teams (bosox, angels, mets, possibly dodgers?) that are interested in him as well, and both the sox and angels probably have more to offer the twins then the yanks do, plus there is the fact that its the yankees we're talking about, certainly no love lost between the twins and yanks, and perhaps the twins will hav personal reasons for not wanting to deal to the yanks