Did you know anything about Muslims before 9/11?

Question

For example, did you know this?

Today is November 27.

"It was on this day in 1095 that Pope Urban II, while on a speaking tour in France, called for the first Crusade to recapture Jerusalem from the Turks. There was no imminent threat. Muslims had occupied Jerusalem for hundreds of years. But Urban II had noticed that Europe was becoming an increasingly violent place, with low-level knights killing each other over their land rights, and he thought that he could bring peace to the Christian world by directing all that violence against an outside enemy. So he made up stories of how Turks in Jerusalem were torturing and killing Christians, and anyone who was willing to join the fight against them would go to heaven.

About 100,000 men from France, Germany, and Italy answered the call, formed into several large groups, and marched across Asia Minor to the Middle East. Nearly half of them died from exhaustion and sickness before they ever reached their destination. They began sacking cities along the way, and they fought among each other for the spoils of each battle. When they reached the trading city of Antioch, they killed almost everyone, including the Christians who lived there. By the time they got to Jerusalem, it had recently fallen into the hands of Egyptians, who were friendly with the Vatican. But the crusaders attacked anyway, killing every Muslim they could find. The Jews in the city gathered in the temple, and the crusaders set it on fire.
Pope Urban II died two weeks later, never hearing the news. But the crusading would go on for the next 200 years.

In the fourth and last Crusade, in 1202, the crusaders never even made it to Jerusalem, but got sidetracked and wound up destroying Constantinople, which was at the time the last great city left over from the Roman Empire. "

Did you know that? Just a little history for you, the next time you feel compelled to rant about a people who "cut off your head" or something like that.

Oh, and to pre-empt any poster who dares to comment on "how long ago" this was?

I'll remind you of YOUR faith and how "long ago" Jesus was among us.

Like I said.....just a little history for you. Perhaps to give you some perspective.

To samantha: How is this question "racist?" Please do tell. I think it's fairly common knowledge that the average Joe Schmoe American is deeply ignorant of anything and everything that is not within eyesight of his own front door.

As a people, our citizens are the most geographically ignorant of all.the "developed" nations.

**********************************

People! People! I'm finding a lot of "kneejerk" responses!
YOU DIDN'T READ THE POST.

READ IT.

To Clint: Sorry, YOU are wrong. And frankly I cannot BELIEVE you are attempting to justify the damn Crusades.

To Evangeline: You are absolutely correct. Not all Americans are ignorant.

To Cookies: I really don't understand why this question made you so angry. Am I on this site "defending" the mistreatment of Arab women? No, I am not.
But thanks for giving a great example of how myopic Americans are. Whether you agree with it or understand or condone it - the fact of the matter is that the traditions and cultures of another people which are highly offensive to you can be matched item by item by them for traditions and cultures of Americans as highly offensive.

Yeah, I know. Hard to believe, isn't it? That somebody somewhere might actually object to the violence, sex, domestic abuse, murders, crime, rapes, child abuse, pedophilia, on and on ad infinitum that we are so blase about.

I was not for an INSTANT "justifying" anything, and I resent the implication.

Just trying to make a point, sorry it went right by you.

Answer 1

Good question, and yes most definitely I did. I have a sister and 2 nieces that live in Beirut, Lebanon and I have read and watched and listened to several very educational T.V. and radio shows (PBS, NPR). I have known about the crusades for all of my adult life and always questioned the duplicity of the Catholic Church, killing in the name of Christ, etc. I also know that the Ottomans were very vicious to the point that they beheaded many of the people they conquered and cast their heads into the pillars at the gates of the cities they had conquered. The 2 main sects of Islam sunni and shia(shihite) divided in the700's A.D. and were centered in the cities of Mecca and Medina in what is now Saudi Arabia. I also know that when Israel gained independence in 1947 that they did so at least partially with the aid of terrorism, whereby Menacham Began {sp} prime minister of Israel during the '70's, bombed a large hotel in the period before they gained independence. In any event your point is poignant and very valid, many of the answers do indeed demonstrate the level of uninformed ignorance that many people are living with, partially the fault of our education system and partially the individuals fault by not availing themselves to the BROAD SPECTRUM of media sources available to them in our media-centric culture. Good informative post!

Answer 2

You made some mistakes.

The crusades were a response to the advancing Muslims, who were extremely barbaric and killed anyone who didn't convert to Islam. The original Crusade was organised by the pope from request by the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire.

There are several reasons for the crusades, apart from killing pilgrims in the holy lands.

The Reconquista, re-capture by Christians of the Iberian Peninsula from the Muslim Moorish states of Al-Ándalus. The Umayyad conquest of Hispania from the Visigoths occurred during the early 8th century, and the Reconquista began almost immediately, in 722 and lasted until 1492.

The Muslim presence in the Holy Land began with the initial Arab conquest of Palestine in the 7th century. This did not interfere much with pilgrimage to Christian holy sites or the security of monasteries and Christian communities in the Holy Land, and western Europeans were less concerned with the loss of far-away Jerusalem than, in the ensuing decades and centuries, the invasions by Muslims and other hostile non-Christians, such as the Vikings, Slavs and Magyars. However, the Muslim armies' successes put increasing pressure on the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire.

Another factor that contributed to the change in Western attitudes towards the East came in the year 1009, when the Fatimid Caliph al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah ordered the Church of the Holy Sepulchre destroyed. In 1039 his successor permitted the Byzantine Empire to rebuild it. Pilgrimages were allowed to the Holy Lands before and after the Sepulchre was rebuilt, but for a time pilgrims were captured and some of the clergy were killed. The Muslim conquerors eventually realized that the wealth of Jerusalem came from the pilgrims; with this realization the persecution of pilgrims stopped. However, the damage was already done, and the violence of the Seljuk Turks became part of the concern that spread the passion for the Crusades.

Antioch had two sieges. The first the Christians who were in the town opened the gates for the crusades and even participated in the massacre of the Muslims.

Siege of Jerusalem (1099) was between Fatimid who was Muslim himself and was supplying the Muslim Moorish states of Al-Ándalus with weapons and troops against the Christian states. The Egyptians and the Crusaders were never allies, they didn't even have a peace agreement. The massacre that happen was disgusting with everyone killed, to the point that "the streets were filled with blood up to the knees.

There were nine named crusades:

First crusade (1095-1099)
Crusade of 1101
Second Crusade (1147–1149)
Third Crusade (1187–1192)
Fourth Crusade (1202–1204)
Albigensian Crusade (1209)
Children's Crusade (1212)
Fifth Crusade (1217–1221)
Sixth Crusade (1228–1229)
Seventh Crusade (1248–1254)
Eighth Crusade (1270)
Ninth Crusade (1271–1272)

Edit -----

I'm not justifing anything I'm simply correcting your mistakes. I've not said the crusaders were correct but you gave false information and even got the basic facts wrong in some cases, four crusades when there were at least 12 and nine are officially called 1 - 9 crusades.

If you would have looked up the history in more than one source you would have caught the mistakes, how can you not even mention the Muslim Moorish states of Al-Ándalus when talking about reason for the crusades? It was this that gave the Christain countries a distrust and almost a hate towards all Muslims.

Answer 3

Early world history is flooded with stories about the Turks and Muslims in general. In most cases the texts describe Turks as heathens, a huge threat to Christianity, etc. These history books have been updated to an extent, but if the Turks are going to be vilified in history books as well should Christians.
Also - I find it interesting that there was a pretty large population of Moors (Muslims) living in Spain. They didn't bother anyone, they had a great civilization. During the Spanish Inquisition all but a very small percentage of this population was wiped out for no reason other than the fact that they did not denounce their religion.

Answer 4

Yes I did actually. I had some Muslim friends earlier and some of my coworkers are Muslim. I also learned in high school about the crusades and the basics of Islamic faith. Later I read some Karen Armstrong who I can really recommend to everyone who wants to understand Islam better

A disturbing but interesting detail is that the pope did give the order but on the letters sent out to other countries fighters it read God wants it and to many uneducated people it was represented as a direct wish from God at that time. Using uneducated people by making them fight your wars to accomplish your political goals in the name of your God. Sure sounds familiar

Answer 5

Yes, I know a lot about the Muslim culture, and knew if before 9/11. I also knew about the Crusades, and the atrocities committed by Christians at the direction of their leaders. It is sick that people will base their opinions of a culture off of one act, when their own culture has been committing those acts for hundreds of years. It just goes to show that people pay more attention the the media than to history.

Answer 6

Well said. Did you or anyone else know that when 911 happened, one of the first things Bush said was he would be on a crusade to find the terrorists. That one word set off emotions all over the middle east, because of what you have just stated. do not think Bush's speech writers said that in error, it was a provoking thing to say.

But many people are ignorant.

And yes I did know about Muslims before 911, it's one of the 3 top religions, who all have Abraham as the father. :-)

Answer 7

Alright!!! Keep up the fine work!!! You would have gotten stoned by the christians in the R&S section for this fantastic piece of literary work!!! Sadly enough, the American people are amoung the most ignorant on this planet, and by choice, I might add! The Popes hold the exact same power over the ignorant masses today as they did in the times of the dark ages! Religious world domination through propaganda & lies spoken out by lying preachers behind the pulpits of todays churches!!! Controlled through superstition, maintained by war, murder, & famine, all with the promise of going to heaven for partaking in the butchery!!! And they wonder why there are so many athiests!!!

Answer 8

I find your post very interesting. I knew a little bit about the violence of the Christians against others during the crusades, and during other eras, and I am proud to be a totally NON-Christian. Christians are so smug and arrogant about their religion, and think they are so superior to everyone else, and their way is the only right way.

Answer 9

Knew of the Crusades in early grade school. Eight grade teacher wore head gear and veil to demonstrate it. Remember C. Clay becoming one and changing his name.
Got much better understanding after 9/11 by watching Cosmos, reading book on Muslim, and reading Koran.

Answer 10

Let's see. 2 courses in Arabic history. 1 course in Islam. 1 course on medieval Spain. 1 course in general medieval European history, a course in the history of the Papacy and the Catholic church. A good friend from Iran, a member of a persecuted sect, the Baha'is. Yeah, I guess I knew a thing or 2 about Islam. Islam was spread by the sword, not by little old ladies passing out leaflets on the street corner, and God help you if you belonged to a non-dhimmi group. The muslims were far advanced in science in the Middle Ages. The problem is that they stayed there, scientifically, socially, and spiritually. We'd be better off without most religions, Islam being one of them.



You really are quite defensive, aren't you?