Why is radio so scared of industrial/gothic music?

Question

This was partially inspired by BC. During the mid 90’s, we had several bands like Gravity Kills or Stabbing Westward that got attention. We even had radio shows on the weekends devoted to underground industrial. Not so today. Other than NIN and maybe Lacuna Coil, none of these other bands ever see the light of day. Even satellite radio stays clear of the genre. Why is this? And please don’t tell me it’s about the money because I’m not buying that argument.

Prof - Hey, good to see you again! Even groups like The Shins or Rilo Kiley get airplay. Maybe not a ton but far more than MSI, Skinny Puppy or Apoptygma Berzerk who get zilch.

Given2Fly - But I want my music to snarl at me like Billy Idol. :)

Sookie - But didn't radio enjoy making money during the 90's? They were still able to play some industrial music AND rake in the dollars. Also, this applies to both XM & Sirius. What are they scared of?

GK Dub - I truly believe people develop much of their musical tastes from what the radio gives them. Crazy as it sounds, I could imagine those very same teenage girls getting excited over Ministry and KMFDM if only they were exposed to it. If all you get is Nickelback, not everyone is going to know better.

MachPen - Agreed, but punk music, indie music, country music, electronica and metal never went into hibernation. You are more likely to hear Slayer and Pantera at any given time than anything industrial. Unlike hair metal and new wave, there are still plenty of these bands in existence.

WOW, I'm blown away by the amount of great answers so far. :)

Answer 1

Unfortunately, radio is mostly controlled by corporate ******* who have little or no interest in great music.......they only play what they like and deem marketable.

I personally find industrial a hard genre to get into these days. It isn’t for the lack of musical quality, though. It’s hard to become interested in a genre like industrial when all the more well-known bands are out-of-print or broken up. More often that not, it’s both.
Circulation and distribution of most industrial labels is weak and most bands have to rely heavily on word of mouth alone.......and many radio stations are still using the same playing format that they used in the 50s/60s/70s, etc. There's not a lot of press dedicated to industrial, so word of mouth again is key. The older fan base of the 80s/90s seems to have dwindled in numbers severely and they are replaced by younger generations who don't seem to be as thirsty for the new talent/albums/songs. Since the hardcore fans have mostly disappeared, the drive to publicize industrial has really decreased.

Answer 2

I'm not so sure that radio is afraid of it, as much as the mainstream audience. Honestly, can you imagine all those teenage girls and young women that get all excited when a song comes on by Nickelback, Hinder, or 3 Doors Down having the same reaction to KMFDM or Ministry? Radio plays mainstream music, and mainstream music is generally very catchy, very easy music that does whatever has already been done a thousand times before. Sadly, most people out there don't bother to expand their horizons to different or lesser known types of music. They only like what they already know. The only reason why unique artists like NIN or Tool get attention is because they are so brilliant that they can't be ignored. This is just my theory though. However, with the variety that satellite radio offers, there really is no excuse for not playing industrial/goth.

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Edit: Just had another thought. Industrial and goth is basically a sub-genre of rock. And it seems that rock goes back and forth from mainstream to something more rebellious. In the 50's, it was considered a rebellious type of music. In the 60's, it became somewhat more acceptable with the pop success of the early stuff by the Beatles and Beach Boys. In the 70's, it became rebellious again while disco was more popular. In the 80's, it took a turn in the pop direction again with the glam bands and the synth-pop-rock. In the early 90's, grunge and metal and industrial made it a bit rebellious again. As of late, rock has gone very mainstream again. Radio ballads are as big as ever. Maybe things will change after 2010.

Answer 3

I know what you mean. In the 90’s, college radio (particularly) had industrial on heavy rotation. And it wasn’t just college radio, I even recall the typical high-fidelity FM stations playing KMFDM and Pigface on a weeknight. Sure, maybe it was during a certain designated hour, but this genre got some airplay and I enjoyed it very much. As with any style of music that takes over a certain era of music history, each genre had it’s “15” minutes in the radio limelight. New Wave had its heyday, so did hair metal as much as we hate to think about it. Industrial-Goth’s was in the early ‘90s. And I think that pretty much once its popularity wore down among the lame trend-hopping crowds (even though the true fans held strong), it didn’t seem lucrative enough to keep on rotation (as everyone else has already said)

edit: I also pretty much assumed that the whole "mainstream audience argument" was a given ... not even all my friends were into industrial when it was in its 'heyday', so I can only imagine what the following is today. Still it was a good point you raised...

**BC also raised an excellent point - btw. YES industrial is still HUGE in Germany... I know this because I hung around those clubs every weekend (2000-2002). It was good to actually hear this stuff again in a club... ah - good times :)

** Bravo - Con Queso!

Very true Rckets...very true. NOW - the question still remains:
was industrial music's "hibernation" caused by money-driven radio marketing, or do the bands also have some blame for not producing anymore of it after a certain point? A lot of older industrial bands went the way of the dinosaur after a certain point, whether it was because they decided to just go on hiatus for an indefinite amount of time, or they decided to break up (or band members overdosed on heroin or whatever drug was in fashion at the time). Nothing is finite - rock and roll in general will always exist, but the bastardized versions of punk, industrial, new wave that exist today, are NOT anywhere near the originals.

Answer 4

For local radio stations the problem is industrial simply isn't mainstream enough, but it's not like they will lose all their listeners if they throw in a few industrial songs.
As far as satellite radio, there is no logical reason for them to not have an industrial/goth station... if they have a station that plays Grateful Dead 24 hours a day, then is an industrial station really asking too much? I don't think so.
I can't say for sure, because I don't live in Europe... but my understanding is that industrial and goth is WAY more popular over there and bands like Apoptygma Berzerk actually get airplay. Apop has had a couple releases that charted at #1 on the German Alternative charts.... yet most people in America have no idea who they are. If they're played on the radio and people are exposed to their music... then they might actually like them.

Edit - Has anyone noticed that a bulk of the industrial (or close to it) songs that DO get airplay are covers?
Orgy - Blue Monday, Godhead - Eleanor Rigby, Dope - You Spin Me 'Round (Like a Record), even Manson broke through with a cover "Sweet Dreams".

Answer 5

Hey Man. Hope you had a nice long weekend.

My guess is pretty much the same as why good indie rock doesn't get play either. It's too nitch-y. You'll get a single or a group (like the Shins briefly did and how NIN broke) that will break out, but at the end of the day people want the same old garbage. In the case of some industrial and goth music there is also the stigma that some people may apply, but I think that is secondary. I think that those genres are more (as much as I hate the word used like this) "challenging" and people just want more Matchbox 20, neo Liz Phair, and if you're going to go heavy on the radio they're going to want name recognition.

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Good to see you too my friend.

I realize that the analogy is flawed for the reason you mentioned, but I think the flaw in it can be explained by the fact that a lot of indie rock is still based in the proven rock formulas (which I will get to in a second). The one thing that I definitely can not explain is the lack of a presence on sattelite radio. The sattelite movement has, to date, kind of passed me by, but from what I know about it there is no good reason I can think of that they wouldn't have an industrial/goth themed station or two. Unfortunately I have no good explaination for that.

As to the FM system that I know a little better, at least can speculate on, it reminds me a lot of a question from quite a while back asking why music seems to be less imaginitive in this current age. Personally, I think it has to do with the unfortunately incredibly effective "do it quick, do it cheap, and cram it down people's throats until they swear by it" method of marketing. This has to do heavily with proven formulas (why bother with the risk of something new not working). This applies to bands like the Shins and Rilo Kiley because a lot of indie rock is a spin on proven rock formulas. They make good flavors of the month because they aren't controversial at all and they still fit into the system. As we've seen though, they still lack longevity on a large, mainstream scale.

But in practice, in L.A. I've seen KROQ (which would be the platform for the music you're talking about) go from progressive and college-y to just cookie cutter and lame. I've seen all the hip indie stations driven to failure within a couple years. While pop stations that play John Mayer, Rob Thomas, etc. in ridiculous rotation (in a standard work day (about 7 hours when you extract breaks away from the radio)) you will hear the same song literally 6-8 times. These stations thrive. Like I said, most people just want the same old garbage and not to have to think about whether or not they like what they're listening to. Thus FM doesn't take any chances.

I think the explanation for the 90's is that there was a head over heels shift in the industry, which opened a lot of doors for new sounds (as I'm sure there will be another such happening maybe in this decade, more likely the next). I also think that people and their expectations are different now. I can't really explain why it seems so different now, but I think it has to do with the whole industry taking less chances because it's cheaper not to.

Answer 6

Everbody gave fantastic answers, so I gave a thumbs up to everyone!! My answer will only reiterate what everyone has said, but it is because most radio stations are owned by corporations who are driven by music that is "listener-friendly" as one person put it and if they were to play something with a little more grit, the bigwigs fear losing their listener base along with profits. Now, if diehard, rock-hard goth/industrial fans were to get together and petition satellite radio or any other radio station, there might be a chance they may play more of the genre. If those fans of goth/industrial would get together, pool their money, and either buy a station, or position on satellite radio, or even airtime, then it would be music for the goth-heads by the goth heads.

Answer 7

I don't think that the programmers see their demographic charts having anything to do the genre. In other words, are the listeners to industrial/goth music going to spend money on the businesses that advertise on the station(s)? Are they going to put off other listeners to the station by playing the genre? Do the programmers think that industrial/goth listeners have any money, period? Or, since everything is a satellite feed anyway, is there anyone with enough gumption to reprogram the feed in the first place? This IS NOT aimed at ANY fan of industrial/goth music. This is aimed at the radio industry.

Answer 8

I don't think I could put it better than the Prof. I completely agree with his answer.

I think listeners, by and large, have become lazy and prefer music that is safe and easy. And radio is way too comfortable with the money that rolls in from feeding that habit.

I also believe that fans of those genres are disillusioned with the medium. They, for the most part, know that radio isn't willing to adapt for them.

Edit: hmmm...you brought up the mini-explosion that industrial had in the 90's. Much like grunge, the popularity waned and radio (and the major labels) no longer saw these genres as being lucrative. Radio does not want to be the innovative force that it used to be - there is too much potential to disrupt the cash flow if it fails, and since industrial already "failed" once they are not willing to set themselves up for loss again.

BC is right about the covers...hmmm...

Answer 9

People are scared of what they don't know or don't understand. Until they take the time to listen and try to understand the music/lyrics, they will always shun those genres. Back when I was in college (too many years ago), there was a great underground music scene and stores where you could buy this music. I dont think it is about money either, I think people just look away from anything that is not immediately pleasing-as opposed to investigating further to see if they might identify.

Answer 10

Well, most everyone already answered that the reason being is that radio stations just like to play easy listening songs to keep their audiences. Most listeners don't like change or anything different, and I think that some people see gothic music as the devil's music just because they see the way many goths (which to me is laughable, no offense to anyone who dresses like that) dress and associate it with witchcraft(there used to be a goth in my school, and students thought he was into witchcraft just because he wore black), depressing nature and so forth, and people escpecially parents will start complaining because we all know most radio stations like to capture the younger listeners. That's just what I think. But if you think about it many of the music, especially reggeton, that is played on the radio contain strong sexual lyrics. How come they are able to play filth like that in the radio? I don't know, I've stopped trying to bother to listen to the radio or understand it's nature, lol. I only listen to it in the morning when they have funny sound clips. Can you believe our one rock station wouldn't even play Megadeth's Sweating Bullets? I remember some years ago someone requested it, and the dj said they couldn't play stuff like that. WTF? he didn't even give an explanation. I will never forget that.