Pittsburgh Pirates, Kansas City Royals Fans?

Question

you don't see too many questions about these teams or hear much from their fans. I just read that Pittsburgh has taken itself out of the free agent market. Living in Cleveland and being an Indians fan, I can certainly understand the plight of the small market franchises but I do not understand the constant plight of teams like the Pirates who have been spiraling for decades now, much like the Indians did. However, the Indians turned the franchise around with the opening of Jacobs Field but PNC does not seem to have done the same for the Pirates. What is going on with these franchises? Why is Pittsburgh in such dire straits? Can an Andrew McCutcheon help?

Answer 1

I'm a Pirates fan and know them well - I suspect Kansas City's problems are similar.

The Pirates plight is the fault of several intersecting problems:

1) No big-money owner. The Pirates ownership (currently Bob Nutting, and Kevin McClatchy before him) are guys who basically have just enough money to own a team, but not enough that they can put much of their own money into the team when things go bad. That means that a couple expensive mistakes (such as the Pat Meares signing or the Jason Kendall contract) end up putting the team's finances in a hole that they cannot pull themselves out of. Small-market teams with wealthy owners (such as Mike Illitch in Detroit or Tom Hicks with the Rangers) can more easily get over such mistakes.

2) Poor executive management. The Pirates have stayed with incompetent (or barely competent at best) general managers for too long. Dave Littlefield was kept around for 6 years despite a distinct lack of improvement; his predecessor, Cam Bonifay, was G.M. for 8 years. Add them up, and you have a decade and a half of front office management that was unable to handle the challenges of a small-market team.

3) Poor system management. This is really an outgrowth of #2. The Pirates have not done enough to stock their minor-league system with high-ceiling prospects. G.M. Littlefield allowed the foreign scouting department to wither, and his trades rarely focused on getting strong prospects into the system. As a result, they lagged in developing new (and, therefore, cheap) talent, a must for a small-dollar team.

4) Momentum. After 15 losing seasons, the fans start to lose interest. if they don't care, they don't buy tickets or support the team, which means the team has less money to work with to try and get back their interest.

Answer 2

I don't know much of the details about the Pirates, but I am a Royals fan and I gotta say that the front office here is moving the team in the right direction. Dayton Moore can't go out and spend $120 million dollars and turn the team around right away through free agents so they've got to build through the draft and one or two mid level free agent signings in the offseason. For years under Allard Baird (quite possibly the worst judge of talent to ever run an MLB team) there was no direction in the front office. Every other season, the Royals would either be a really young team to build on or a team full of geriatric cast offs that couldn't quite face the fact that it's time to retire. Now, Moore has put together a pretty good pitching staff and he's drafted some solid power bats at key positions. The Royals aren't going to be division winners next year, but they're really building and getting better. The bad part is that because of the last couple decades of near constant losing, these young guys here will have to learn how to win before KC will be able to get that big veteran free agent that finishes the team and puts them in that contender category.

btw Ryan, the Gil Meche signing wasn't a bad deal. If they could have scored any runs for him at all, Meche could have been an 18 game winner last year. He lost 7 games where he gave up 3 or less runs.

Answer 3

Your right. The KC Royals and the Pittsburg Pirates are serially overlooked by Major League Baseball and it's fan base and I agree that it starts with the front office of each team.

First off, the Pirates are their own worst enemy. Their front office is an absolute disaster that has no of idea what it takes to put together a winning team. Usually, yes, new Ball Parks tend to generate revenue and teams shop for players that will fill the stands. Your right, PNC has not lived up to that expectation. Even having the 2006 All star game couldn't save the ballpark. Here is why people don't care about the Pirates: their best player is Jason Bay, their SS Freddy Sanchez won the 2006 NL batting title and received NO PRAISE whatsoever, they have no pitching (except for Ian Snell), and they have no appeal. Their jerseys are hurrendous, and they don't have any flashy players that can put them on the map. Not to mention they have had at least a decade worth of losing seasons. Here is an example of the Pirates front office all need the axe: In 2003 they traded away Kenny Lofton and Aramis Ramirez (and another player I can't remember) to the Cubs for basically a sack full of marbles. And for the 2008 season, they won't even pursue a quality CF like an Aaron Rowand, Coco Crisp, or Mike Cameron to accompany Jason Bay and Xavier Nady.

As for the KC Royals:
They have arguable been the worst team in Baseball since the early 90's. They spend $55million dollars in the 2006 off season signing Gil Meche. They too do not have a flashy player that draws in the nation's attention. Alex Gordon is a distant second. When they start winning, and showing the league they aren't a joke, then people will start giving them attention.

Answer 4

Personally, I blame Kevin McClatchy and Dave Littlefield for the losing season.Reason being is because of not spending enough money to field a competitive team. The Pirates' payroll of just under $47 million was the fourth-lowest in the majors when the season began this year. Pittsburgh have some good, young stars (Jack Wilson, Jason Bay, Freddy Sanchez, Matt Capps, ETC) but they also need at least 1 or 2 vets in that line up/bullpen. The Pirates lack in signing good free agents, instead, they rely on their farm team in which isn't that good either.

Another reason is that the Pirates is all about money. McClatchy fail to deliver in signing free agents year-by-year, but raised prices on tickets. What kind of crap is that?

Now both Littlefield & McClatchy is out of the way, I see a little light and hope that the New GM will shed some light. Until then, you probably won't hear people talk about the Pirates or Royals in a more positive and prospective way.

Answer 5

Our drafting has been brutal. The only good deals really have been the Jason Bay deal and the Freddy Sanchez deal. The other trades(Nady, Wilson, Laroche) have been adequate at best. The starting pitching has always been a tease. We drafted Duke, Snell, Gorzelany, Bullington, Burnett, Van Benschoten. They all show promise but can't yet get that top status. Our #1 draftpick pitchers over the years have been a joke. Starting with Benson, Clint Johnston, Burnett, Van Benschoten, Bullington, Brad Lincoln have all had arm troubles right after they were drafted. It's either bad luck or bad handling by the organization. We also haven't drafted any good position players in a long time. I don't consider Kendall a great pick back in '92. They all seem to fizzle out before they get here or they are here for just a cup of coffee. A combination of all of that as well as poor attendence and bad overall management have and will continue to doom the franchise.

Answer 6

If I was a Fan Of Any of those Teams I Would Still Root For The Team That Played In That City/State First It Doesn't Matter To Me Once A Fan Of Certain Team Always A Fan

Answer 7

while im not what you could call a pirates fan or a royals fan i usually root for them
i think that a ballpark in and of itself cant rectify a team, the team has to be willing to spend money and they have to be able to develop talent in their systems
it seems to me the pirates have going on what the brewers had for years, ownership not concerned with winning(the brewers didnt do well until all seligs were out of the picture) and an inability to develop much talent, what talent they did have was always getting hurt, take chris bosio, juan nieves and even ben sheets today
the pirates are a long way off still, but they have started in the right direction, and they do have some awfully exciting young guys, like gorzellany, duke, bay, paulino and sanchez
the royals appear a lot closer to success though they are in a much tougher division, they have started to spend the money, becoming free agent players, and they can develop talent, guys like dejesus or buck or gordon or greinke

Answer 8

The plight of every small market team can be attributed to one and only one source, George Steinbrenner. This greedy SOB has all but destroyed not only small market teams but those franchises that are hanging by a thread to compete in the free agency market.

I can't see any changes throughout baseball unless some form of a salary cap be implemented. The league is talking about expansion by 2012. Hell, the league can't even support what they have. Look at Tampa Bay. Talk about a dieing franchise. There is even talk about moving the D-Rays to Orlando. Tampa Bay has the lowest attendance in all of baseball.

Answer 9

It comes down to the horrible mix of bad ownership, poor management, terrible drafting and trades and lack of money.
The Twins, A's. Indians and other smaller market teams manage to compete enough to keep fans interested with smart decision, using their farm system making and spending money wisely.
KC and Pittsburgh haven't done that in years, and have managed to stink worse then any other team for a long long time.