How were amateur players dispersed prior to the inception of the NHL Draft in 1963?

Question

I know that there were territorial assignations prior to the draft system, but were players permitted to sign at any time of the season, or only after their amateur teams were eliminated?

Also which team(s) had rights to western Canada during the Original Six era?

Lot's of good information. Thanks to all that replied. As you know, the "system" allows for only one best answer, but in my opinion, there are at least 4 best answers here.

I recently stumbled upon a piece that said the impetus for expansion in the mid 1960's was that the WHL wanted to go pro. The California entries (Kings, Seals) were meant to head off the WHL plans much in the way that the Islanders were later "used" to beat the WHA from putting a team on Long Island in '72.

Answer 1

As someone currently writing a book on the history of the draft, let me weigh in here for my $0.02 to simplify things.

Both Paul O and LITY are correct, here is a simplified version

Prior to the 1962-63 season, every NHL team had what was called a sponsorship list. This list consisted of players that
a) played in the NHL with the big club
b) played for the big club's minor league affiliate
c) played for the big club's sponsored OHL team (which Paul listed)
d) lived within a 50 mile radius of the club's home rink, and had received a letter from the club advising that they were on the list (this is the letter that Jean Beliveau had received that he rebuffed)

Any player who 15, and met the D requirement, could be sent a letter. The player could sign the letter and return it, or refuse it. If the player refused it, the team could give up on the player, or pursue it further.

In the case of someone like LITY, any team interested in his services, aould ask Montreal....are you still negotiating? Or is he free? If he was free, any team was free to send him a sponsorship letter, which he was free to sign.

If a player was not within the 50 mile limit, that player was free to field offers from any teams. Once that player agreed to a sponsorship level/contract, the NHL club could assign him to their sponsored junior squad.

As Paul O mentioned, this caused a lot of consternation because many people felt it limited a players movement, or that teams were signing players to their sponsorship list simply to prevent another team from signing them.

During the 1962-63 season, Clarence Campbell came up with an idea (very similar to today's draft) that beginning with the end of the 1963 season, any player who was 17 yrs of age, and not signed to a sponsorship agreement, was free to be drafted by any team (and then become 'sponsored')

At this point in time, Montreal was permitted to take UP TO two players of French-Canadian heritage before the draft started.

Answer 2

For the most part NHL teams directly sponsored Jr. A Hockey Teams. Montreal sponsored the Montreal Jr. Canadiens, Toronto had the Marlies and St. Michaels Majors, Chicago had the St. Catharines TeePees and Blackhawks, Boston had Niagara Falls Flyers, Detroit had the Hamilton Red Wings, New York Rangers had junior teams in Guelph and Galt.

So for example in St. Catharines in the late 50s and early 60s junior players like Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita, John McKenzie, Roger Crozier, Phil Esposito, Vic Hadfield, Ken Hodge, Dennis Hull, Chico Maki, Pierre Pilote, Fred Stanield and Pat Stapleton would play their junior hockey together and then move up to the NHL Blackhawks. Even the junior coach, Rudy Pilous, moved up to coach the NHL Blackhawks and won a Stanley Cup in 61.

Direct sponsorship of junior teams began to unravel when some litigious-minded types began to question the legality of NHL teams "owning" the playing rights of underage kids. Teams also were notorious for "stacking" junior teams by moving kids away from their parents to live with relatives in other cities.


LIGTY: I was going to mention that none of the players I listed was actually born in St. Kitts ... but was too lazy to do the web research to get my facts right in explaining how the players ended up with those teams.

I don't want to open up any Rudy wounds, but you might like this. He was back in St. Catharines in the 80s running the Leafs AHL team, the Saints. I was working for a newspaper at the time and called him just before the team's first training camp to see if I could get a copy of the team logo. He said sure, and a few days later via mail came a crummy line drawing of an Elmer Fudd monk, halo and all, on skates holding a stick. I thought it was a joke until I saw it on a sweater a few weeks later. I found out later that Rudy apparently hadn't been thinking about a logo until I called, so he stayed up a few extra hours that night and did his own to save a few bucks.

Sound like the Rudy you know?

Answer 3

The rules for signing players and such practically didn't exist back then. The NHLPA wasn't created yet and so the owners could pretty much sign anyone that wasn't already under an NHL contract. Back then there were only 6 teams and so there were much more than enough talent around for every team, so they pretty much picked from there designated areas, but it wasn't a rule set in stone. Montreal got most of the french-Canadians, but not all, and not all Habs were french-Canadian.

It would seem that Detroit had the rights to the Maritimers(western Canada), since that is where the great Gordie Howe came from, along with others. But, Bobby Hull also came from the west and so maybe Chicago also had dibs out there.

Answer 4

As somebody who came under those rules, please allow me to answer.

Prior to 1969, Each NHL team had the exclusive rights to sign the best players aged 16 or above who lived within a 50 mile radius of the city. Between 1963 and 1968, only players who had not been previously signed (Or under assignment to) an NHL team were eligible for the draft. In 1967, the St. Louis Blues couldn't get this right because they picked a player under assignment with their first pick, and it was later voided.

So, in my case, I was born and raised in Montreal, and was therefore destined to be a Montreal Canadien.......but alas, Montreal didn't want me. So, in February 1959, I signed a contract with the Chicago Black Hawks (I needed to provide a letter stating Montreal would forego their territorial right). In 1961, they invited me to camp

Note: Typical of Quebec............the Ungava peninsula was 'within 50 miles' of Montreal

In the case of players who were not in a 50 mile limit (Gordie Howe, Bobby Orr, Bobby Hull, etc) they were free to sign with any teams they chose (or more accurately...chose them). At that time, NHL teams were also in competition with the Western Hockey League and the International Hockey League for players and the way salaries were, the NHL wasn't so much better than those leagues ...............so a lot of players signed in the west to stay close to home.

When could a player sign? A player could sign any time they want. Once you signed however, you were bound for life practically. If you wanted out of your contract, it was tough. I know many people who thought they were good enough to play for the Rangers, Bruins, or Red Wings but were unable to get out of their contracts with Toronto, Montreal, or Chicago. It's not like today where you sign for $X for Y years.
Jean beliveau's first contract paid him $100,000 for 5 years, but when that contract was up, he was still the property of the Canadiens. That was the way it was, nobody questioned it....except Terrible Ted.

There were teams at that time who had 70-80 people under contract (Montreal) and other teams that had 30 (Boston and the Rangers).

Imagine what hockey would have been like if Gordie Howe had been signed by the Rangers (they were the team who invited to camp first)?


Greatwhite...........Maritimers are from the EAST coast of Canada, Gordie Howe was not a maritimer.

And Bobby Hull was born and raised in Eastern Ontario (then St. Anne, now called Belleville).......a long way from Western Canada


Paul O
Players had to be signed (or under assignment) before they could join those teams, being a TeePee alumnus myself. Every player I played with had been signed by Chicago (or another team and had their rights transferred) at the age of 16 or 17. And please don't mention Rudy.


TB
Everybody envies my job, and it's been a great job. I can honestly say that hockey has been my life, the NHL has been good to me etc. But at the same time, I would have loved to have been a steelworker, or an architect, or a bank manager. I would have loved to have finished high school, gone to University (I always envisioned myself at McGill), had a professional job. A normal retirement would be nice too. My one neighbour is an economist, and his wife's a realtor. My other neighbour owns a small dry-cleaning business. And they all seem happy. The Dry Cleaning guy hates sports, athletes make too much money.............but aside from that he's a great guy!


Paul
Yeah, that sounds like Rudy. He was a mean tough SOB, he expected a lot out of you, which is fine, but when you didn't do what he wanted, he would fly off the handle. Part of the reason he was fired was his relationship with Hull, Mikita, and Pilote...or lack thereof. All three were down to earth guys, great players as we all know, but Pilous assumed that because they were NHL stars that they were prima donnas and tried calling them out. Somebody told Tommy Ivan that the reason they didn't win the cup is because Pilous was getting under everybody's skin.

My beef with the guy is that my first two camps, he practically had the roster set and even though some of us outhustled his guys, he didn't care. By the time Billy Reay came along, I was 22 and no longer on the radar (or so Ivan told me a couple of years later)

Answer 5

^^^^ You are Canadian and you think that a Maritimer is from Western Canada? Sad.
I know there were restrictions because Montreal had first crack at francophones. LITY will be able to give you the correct answer on this one. I actually think I remember him mentioning it before but I can't remember the logistics so I am looking forward to seeing too.

Answer 6

Marty might would desire to be via far the ideal of the outstanding class the 1990 draft became into. even however I do credit Nolan, Jagr, and Primeau with provided a number of the preferable performances of their technology, Brodeur trumps all of them.

Answer 7

I think we all know the four-letter person who can answer this question...

LITY - That was VERY interesting. Your knowledge of the game and its history is incredible.

Answer 8

a)They drew straws.
b)Rights to Western Canada= hmmm idk w/o won the Lumberjack Comp..

Geeeeezis there ANYTHING LITY does NOT know about hockey?

Answer 9

oh man, this question is like a geography test, i have no clue what the hell it means.