Free Will or Determinism? What do you think?

Question

"You can change what you might be but never can you change what you will be"...

I think Free will is an illusion.. the atoms are causal of one another... obviously the atoms will do what higher causing makes them do, which means they are deterministic.. for free will to exist there must be a period of uncertainty with potential, and i don't just mean a person being confused about what to do.. Free willers (if you like) like to think that there's a non-deterministic superstition of some sort affecting our decisions.. free will is not logical.. it's superstitious and I believe it's an illusion. What's your opinion?

Answer 1

yes you are right!

The illusion is that you must do what you do you just don't know what you're supposed to do or what you will do, so the possibilities seem endless.. when they most limited.

Answer 2

This ain't an easy one. I'm a determinist--but that leaves me with the determinist's problem of explaining why I feel that I have free choice. That is, I must construct a theory based in necessity that explains 'my perception that I have free will' as a determined phenomenon.

I haven't gotten very far with that project. So far, the best I can do is to posit that within me there are mechanisms (of a merely physical nature) that permit evaluations (ditto) of perceptions (ditto) and the product of extrapolative mechanisms that add pseudo-perceptions (ditto) that lead to operations (ditto) that are perceived, etc.

It isn't a simple model, having many feedback loops, and it's still very incomplete. Nevertheless, I'm feeling pretty good about it. I think 'my perception that I have free choice' may (eventually) be acceptably explained as the perception that there is little evaluative differential among perceptions and extrapolations from perception.

Answer 3

Determinism is a way of interpreting actions that have already happened and filtering future actions to be determined by factors out of our control. You speak of atoms responding to a higher causing, but are all the atoms responding to the same higher causing? If I want to lift my arm then my mind triggers this action, not God, as well as I can't make you lift your arm with my mind. Therefore there are infinite possibilities for the immediate future which can be guided by free will. This happens in millions of isolated incidents, but on grander scales involving more people determinism seems much more prevalent. Interesting enough Isaac Asimov must have believed in determinism in his robot, foundation and empire novels with his invention of the science of psychohistory. Also in your favor are those who you might see at a magic show who have written down something on a peice of paper and randomly selected an audience member who eventually says exactly what is on the paper.

Answer 4

I have a beef with determinism, not just because I like my illusion of awareness and will, but because of scientific discoveries about the nature of reality. Determinism can never be ultimately proven, because to do so, one will have to declare that they have gotten to the absolute bottom of the levels of our reality, and worked out that this level too is governed by processes which are entirely predictable. Right now, we haven't even solidly established that there is a bottom. Right now, determinists are just assuming that this is true, and they go off half-****** to try to shatter our illusions in the way of the romantically rebellious iconoclast!

I am an adherent of science, but as we probe deeper into the nature of our reality, past atoms and forces to the fundamental stuff ("string" and "branes" in modern theories) making up everything, things just seem to get weirder and less certain. Who can predict where the vacuum will produce a particle from a quantum fluctuation? Who's to say that is is something predictable? What sort of observational instrument or computer could ever operate on that level without changing all the conditions around it?

Determinists argue that what appear to be random processes (like what direction an atom will send a photon when it fluoresces, or when a particular atom will fission, or how the neurons in your head will fire) are merely poorly understood predictable processes - that if you had enough information about the entire system, down to every jostle of every quark in the nucleus - you could actually predict these seemingly random events. But how does that fit with the researchers who coaxed an atom to exist in 2 places at once? (or was it 2 quantum states at once...?) Modern physics looks at time like cones tip-to tip, opening outward, growing wider with possibilities with time, with all possibilities occuring somewhere (Many Worlds Theory) but in determinism time is just a straight line with one possibility. And that would be acceptable, if it could ever be proven as true instead of merely inferred.

Free will has been traced to the activity of our thoughts, which have been traced to the activity sometimes of what single neurons do, which could depend sometimes on where single neurotransmitter molecules are, which could depend on intermolecular forces dependent on the activity of single electrons, which themselves could be vibrating loops of string subject to forces on the Planck scale. As long as that final level remains beyond the reach of our complete understanding, one can not say with certainty that the will is completely determined.

Answer 5

Free will has to be proven not disproven. Think of a regret. Now think of the alternative. At that time that you made that decision do you really think you could have chosen the alternative. Your value system at that time told you to pick the decision you thought would be best for you. That value system is caused by different experiences, beliefs, and influences out of your control (your mood, the current chemical levels in your brain). How can you possibly make a decision that was not influenced by anything. Everything is caused. To understand the concept of determinism I feel you need to understand 3 things. First, understand that everything has a cause. All atoms are governed by physical laws. (Quantum mechanics when talking about free will only tells us that we are chaotic..not free). Second, understand that we will always make the decision that we think is best for us at that time. The most advantages scenario would be the one we seek. Even when one commits suicide. It weighed more in his value system at that time. Third, understand that the formation of our personality is based on things out of our control.(Genetics, environment, experiences) These things also shape our value system. THat same value system when making a decision. I don't see the room for free will.

Answer 6

I agree with your assessment. The only factor that I believe might lie in a grey area is thought. I am neither competent nor qualified to respond to that point on an educated level, but to my understanding, thought may be the one area that might have the potential to be outside of direct causality.

Answer 7

These are two sides of the same coin in phenomena; occurrence. We create the advent or idea of occurrence by putting a beginning, ending and duration to our sensory experience. There is no beginning or end to the stream or flow or unitary movement or what ever symbol you can use to attempt to grasp it.

There is no real occurrence happening other than in our memory and conditioned thinking process. There is no predetermined occurrence or any free will to respond to stimulus. I can only attempt to symbolize it by saying that it has always moved without measurement or duration. We have forced ourselves to measure it.

Answer 8

Free will is our greatest gift. I feel it, believe it, and have experienced it with great joy for myself. Free will is not logical, that's the beauty of it. I do not believe in destiny. We all make obvious choices in our lives. Destiny is a cool concept though. Very fun to dream about.

Answer 9

Yes

Answer 10

i believe in free will, we create who we are, we are becoming who we will be, to me free will is logical , what higher causing is there to make us do anything? that to me would be more getting into superstition, that there is something that designed an individual definite plan for each and every one of us,