If you think A-Rod is overpaid then you HAVE to include Torri Hunter now?

Question

Hunter is making between 17-18 mill and A-Rod is making 27.5 mill. That means Hunter is making aprox 64% of A-Rod's salary. Before we start I want to say leave out whether or not you think Hunter is a nice guy and A-Rod isn't. This is about skills and salary. Here's a breakdown of the numbers:

A-Rod is a career .306 hitter Hunter = .271 OBP are .389 to .324 and OPS are .967 to .793 making Hunter 18% worse.
Both are exactly the same age and A-Rod is slightly faster. Both have gold gloves playing demanding positions, but Hunter is clearly better at fielding.
A-Rod puts up nearly 50-60% the HRs and RBIs Hunter does and scores and closer to 70% more runs.
A-Rod is more durable than Hunter, and Hunter's all out play places even more risk on him.
Net runs (RBIs + Runs put Hunter @ 67.7% over the last 7 years. His pay rate is 64% so..
Considering the salaries Hunter is being paid on par w/ A-Rod for his skill set. If A-Rod isn't worth his money, then Hunter isn't worth his either.

I did this from the top of my head and then actually got down into it and realized how dead on I was. I would like for anyone to comment on this intelligently and offer other feedback.

Rob: 2 points I would make to you. 1st the Avg, OBP, and OPS numbers may only be 18% apart, but that's misleading. You're never going to see a 60% spread otherwise many players would be hitting .200 the margin for error is different. Perhaps if I worded it better like Hunter performing 60% less than A-Rod when compared to the overall league average? Does that make more sense? I had limited space to work with.

2nd: A-Rod has already signed 1 10 year deal and his performance did not slip, yet to still throw out the contract year talk. I think it is unfair to put A-Rod in that category since he's chasing a record that will motivate him to perform 100% of the time.

3rd: Clemens was 45 not 42ish, and I do think w/ A-Rod's supurb conditioning he will be able to post .270 20 HR 75 RBI years. Factor in that in 10 years the average salary will be up and guys like Prince Fielder will be making more than A-Rod. It wont seem so much $$ then. Simple inflation.

There several good answers, but most people missed the point. The question was NOT about ARE or ARE NOT players are overpaid but rather how dumb it is for someone to say A-Rod is "greedy" and "is overpaid" when I illustrated that A-Rod sets the "pay scale" for every other player. It's like minimum wage. If A-Rod is paid $10 per run and he gets 100 runs then thats $1000. Hunter may only drive in 70 runs, but would still get "$10" per run, hence a $700 dollar salary. To point out any one player as being "overpaid" is wrong when they are all on the same scale, and that scale is determined by the best player's salary in relation to owner's profits. It has nothing to do with league averages as Rob stated.

Answer 1

No, the numbers are greater apart than 20% or so.
Hunter has OBP of 324 and is in steady decline; Rodriguez is at 389 and generally improving.
Hunter's career OPS+ is 43 points lower.
A-Rod creates almost 70% more runs per game.

And A-Rod's defense is more valuable--Torri is winning Gold Gloves on reputation these days. Sigh.

Folks, the question isn't if any of them are overpaid. It's if they are overpaid in relation to an absurd market.

I like Hunter, but if he is "worth" $17 million, than A-Rod is most certainly worth $27.5.

Rob—I’m not from the Bronx and I am not a Yankees fan. I am actually a Twins fan.
I pointed out that SOME of the numbers are much different than 20%. For example, Rodriguez has an OPS+ of 147 to Hunter’s 104. Would you like me to explain how that is greater than 20%
His Runs Created is 70% greater. Again, do you get that 70% not only is not 20%, but that it is quite a bit more?
Hunter’s OBP in 2005 was 337, in 2006 it was 336, and last year it was 334. That’s not declining? (That was the point, oh great-brained one, not if they were above league average.)
Take a look at the numbers yourself. Then get a tutor for yourself.

Answer 2

C Note, you're obviously a smart guy (for a Yankee fan), but here's why I think you're wrong:

First, 3 simple overarching stats are OBP, SLG and OPS. They roll in most of the numbers you're talking about.
If you compare career numbers, Pay-Rod is 20%, 23% and 19% ahead of Hunter in these categories, yet his salary is over 60% higher. And Hunter's numbers could get better on the Angels, where he is protected by a better line-up.
I know you can put only 9 guys on the field at one time, but that's a serious differential.

Second, and most importantly is contract length. Hunter's contract finishes when he's 37, PayRod's when he's 42. Do you seriously think he's going to have the bat speed he has today at 42? Can you show me a case of anyone in MLB history who's like that? That's about Clemens age. How'd he do this year? And let me give you two other words: Johnny Damon. How's HE holding up? Finally, Pay-Rod's stats were the best of his career this year. Can you say "contract year performance"? Will this really continue? Hunter, on the other hand, with a change of venue and more talented teammates, will be far more motivated by non $$ factors, and probably do as well or better.

PayRod is undoubtedly a heck of a player, and could break many records, but the contract length also shows that the Yankees are probably doing what they do best here; overpaying for over-the-hill players. In PayRods case, they're just doing it 5 years in advance.

so is Hunter overpaid? probably. As much as A-Rod? probably not.

and Bucky, do the math. .389 IS 20% higher than .324. Don't they teach you math in the Bronx? The run production is great, but that is a function of the LINEUP as well as the individual. That's why Hunter will do better in LA. and the extra home runs show up in the slugging percent. And his OBP is not declining; it's been above average for the last 4 years. Did you look at the numbers? Do you really understand what any of this means? You must, because the Yankees don't have any bandwagon fans now, do they?

Bahahahahhaha! Cnote, tutor this man!

BTW Cnote, I agree that ARod will perform well for a while, but even he will taper off after about 37-38, and that's only half way through the contract. That's when most players lose their bat speed. Don't believe me? Look at Sheffield. He was a stud. He hit .325 when he was 32 and .265 last year at 38. The ageless Kenny Lofton? He dropped 26 points from age 32 to 38. DiMaggio? .315 at 32, .263 at 36 (then he retired). I know, different era, but this is a fact of life. And you're right about Clemens he's older. My bad. so let's take Moose instead. he's 38. How was his season?

as for paying for the differential between performance that is better than average that's hard tot buy too. By that logic, if the average numbers of homers is 15, you would pay a guy who hits 25 twice as much as a guy who hits 20. doesn't make sense.

finally, as for the contract value inflation, consider that ARod himself is only getting a 10% increase here after 7 years. While salaries will rise, I don't think we'll see huge jumps everywhere. ARod's salary in 5 years will still be near the top if not at the top. And he'll be in his late 30s and starting to slow. And by the way, at 50 homers per year, he will have reached the record in 5 years, so that motivation will be out of the way too.

Sorry, I like your arguments, but I'm not buying it yet...

Answer 3

While I do think Rodriguez is overpaid, I would certainly agree with you that Hunter is too now.

Vernon Wells, who performs about on par with Hunter, bit more ability to drive in runs, less SB speed, signed a similar contract, bit longer in fact and year 1 was a total bust.

For players, who no longer have the excuse 'we only play for a few years' in their back pocket, should get guaranteed contracts only if they guarantee production.

Performance based is the only way to go. Hunter will now make more in one season than most people will make in 5 life times.

Answer 4

Very few players nowadays are not overpaid. While your comparison does illustrate a point somewhat, I think a better way is for clubs to find fresh players who are more committed to the game and less about the money. Unfortunately I am not sure how many of these there are around as well.

Answer 5

When you put it like that its quite clear.
I think A-Rod id worth his money.
His skill set and performances are worthy of his salary.
He produces the goods year after year.
He is currently the best player in the MLB.

Torri Hunter is good and an above average player but no, hes not worth the money they are paying him.

There is a clear gap between A-Rod and Hunter.
Perhaps in reality the gap is between A-Rod and the rest of the MLB hitters.
He will produce the goods again this year.

Answer 6

The way I look at it all is that every sports figure, every player, every manager, every owner and everyone involved with a sports franchise is overpaid. Reality is that your childrens Teachers, probably the most important people alive, make a pittance of someone who's involved with a "Game". You can also include Police, Firemen, Doctors, Research Technicians etc etc.
These people are the true heros. To hear about another baseball megamillionaire is old news.

Answer 7

The Yankees should read this and maybe they will understand that they wasted 275 million dollars on A-ROD!!! What a sad day in Yankee history it will be when they annouce that A-Rod signed a 10 year 275 million dollar deal!!! They could have spent that money on better players quality players to build the team for the future not on A-ROD makes me sick to my stomach!!!

Answer 8

depends ,its abusiness,up till the 70s the owners made the money ,so free agent came and now theowners are paying the best money to get good players to come to there teams.doesnt matter if its arod are hunter,in a few seasons it will be fielder,and the new players comeing up.they need a salary cap in place before ppl quit going to the games.i myself quit going when they had the last lockout.

Answer 9

I agree, although I think the ROI on A-Rod will be greater than that on Hunter.

Answer 10

What a mistake that A-rod contract. Way too long of a time period. Steep price for the #1 Playoff Dud.