At this point of time, don’t you think that BELIEVER’S have a + point?????

Question

In science, if any thing that cannot be proved directly, we assume it to be true first and then start working on that to prove it right or wrong. Thus, at least for the time being, BELIEVER’S point of view becomes more logical and put them in advantageous position. Only task they are left with it is to prove it scientifically. Where as, ATHEISTS have no starting point at all because theory of “nothing comes out of nothing” comes in their way.
( Just a thought Inspired by Pamela)

Trina—
Some times I also think that the definition of nothing, which is also something (I agree), would lead us to some conclusion.??? R0ck3t3r---has spoken about the Black Hole and I think he has a point
Trina --- Would you like to add a few words in the light of what R0ck3t3r has to say?

Answer 1

The first thing that you should understand is this: There is no such thing as "nothing." In order for you to tell me what nothing is you have to give it definition. By doing so, you have made it something. So just as you are saying "nothing comes out of nothing" you are saying "something comes out of something." So, your theory that Atheists have no starting point is fundamentally flawed. You see, even if their starting point is "nothing," it is in fact "something."

By the way... in science we do not assume something is true until it is disproved, as you suggest. We create what is know as a hypothesis. That is a hypothetical - a theory. We then develop ways of proving and/or disproving the theory.

One rule for something to be a scientific fact is that it must be able to be disproved. That is a very important distinction.

ADS - Although I have some familiarity with black holes, I am really not that well versed on the subject. I tend not to discuss things that I am not too familiar with. :) Further, what really happens after something passes into a black hole is unknown at this point. It is purely speculative. Some people hypothesize that matter disappears all together. Others think it may pass to another universe. Others believe that matter is highly compressed. I am not sure what I believe. :)

Answer 2

Even if believers have a + point to start with,that doesn't make their position more tenable as we along the way to explore the possibilities and probabilities raised by your question..Like believers,atheists too have a belief which is a kind of counter belief of what believers have and thus have a not only a starting but a finishing point as well since they seem to have concluded their option with a full stop..Science doesn't always assume anything to be true buy goes along with the scope laid down in a hypothesis. It may sound logical to a layman that nothing comes out of nothing but if we call nothing as say,X,then the same statement would read like,'X comes out of X',which is a positive statement .I personally find such debates tiring as both contestants often fly off the handle and try to superimpose their convictions on the other party,which lead nobody no where.God is not the only concept which exists in the minds of people but their are infinite number of other convictions in our minds which have no proof of their validity.Practically,it's not a God which helps believers but only their belief coupled with a kind of auto suggestion to an outcome which they fervently desire.Let it be',to each his own.'

Answer 3

I think what you are getting at is:

Innocent until proven guilty
- or -
Fact until proven fiction

Correct?

Usually science is based upon observations. Actions and reactions etc.
Any scientific thought not based upon observations is just pure theory -- imagination. A "what if" scenario. Even if it can be proven mathematically, it is still imagination. You could call it a belief, but hypothesis really is a better choice of words. I do not see mathematics as being absolute in a non-absolute world. Doesn't make sense. Even the theory of 0 (zero) is still just a theory. Zero never existed in mathematics until recently for a very good reason, because in the physical world, there so far is no such thing as zero. Sure, you can have "zero dollars", but can you, say, take a container, suck all the air out and have nothing, zero, inside that container, what they call a vacuum? No, of course there is something still inside or the container would collapse. So far, scientists cannot prove their theory of Zero, yet Zero is probably the basis for many 'proven' theories (cannot think of any offhand). Scientific theory is more of an always ever evolving thought that is never wholly proved or disproved.

Observing and interacting with a belief on a physical level is not really possible. Beliefs are mental and can only be interacted with in one's own mind. Beliefs are not tangible in our human physical world. Even if a belief could be proven mathematically, it would still hold true to the 'theory' or 'imagination' but not yet to the tangible world in which we live (or think we live). Beliefs are things that cannot be proven to be true or untrue yet the believer chooses to think of it as being true without evidence. Is "E=MC2" no different than "God" in that they are both still theories? Perhaps.

How do I know that I exist? Am I a virus inside a much larger being? Who knows -- but it's fun to think about. But, when a belief becomes more than a belief and passes into the realm of fantasy and delusion is when the believer will not allow themselves to say, "Maybe it's true; maybe it's not" and will never alter their mind to what they believe to be true. I think that's what we call "faith" -- blind non-questioning non-thinking belief.

Answer 4

On the point of “nothing comes out of nothing”...
That has been used alot. Also "matter/energy cannot be destroyed/created but only converted".

In ALL of the instances that has been used to "prove" that fallacy of peoples beliefs, it is now thrown out and must be re-evaluated under the light of the new Quantum Theories.

Even though the rumbling has just begun. Quantum Mechanics has now put forth a new theory for the beginning of everything. Instead of a Big bang which expands then collapses then expands again, QM says that existence is in membranes. And the crossing of two branes caused a huge influx of matter/energy into our universe which is ever expanding. Do you see where this has given us a new source for matter/energy which we have been unable to measure in the past?

Im not saying that its the answer. But it gives a fun scientific response to some of the old stupid questions of trolls such as "when God created the universe, where was he standing?" >:)

Answer 5

I am neither wht nor blk i am just a human being !! After all i also live in South africa and i have a choice. I want to live here! You also my dear friend have a choice . Either you live here or get the hell out and go and live where you think you will be comfortabe. You are an extreme right wing - thats all just like Eugene Terblance edit:@ canned ice 69: I can leave but i'm riding the storm for now. I know there's problems with the govn. etc crime is out of control etc and many other issues, the best thing to do is unite and make this country a better place for all. edit : poaced or scrambled buddy - anything you choose en ek is tweetaalig ook

Answer 6

There are those of us that believe in both science and God. Personally I don't feel the need to have what I believe proved to be true. Sometimes just the belief is enough.

As for the nothing is really something because in order to define it you have to call it something I disagree.
Nothing is the absence of something.

Answer 7

Personally I find that theists and atheists have equal footing since at this point it is impossible to prove one way or another. Science favors the theory that explains the most things. As an agnostic someone saying that "it just happened" has just as much validity as someone saying "well this invisible guy did it". And technically they are both "BELIEVERS" they just believe different things.

Answer 8

Well, it all comes down to belief. Personnaly, I really do think belief is stronger then science. If science proves it, then it only gets better. Belief can pursaude people like science can not. So yea, Believers do have a good point, not just because I am one of them, but its because we show that we have something to look forward to. We do have a solution for most things because we think of the problems in positive ways.

Answer 9

I find it very interesting that inside of a black hole, matter seems to be created and disappears totally. It makes me wonder if the whole universe is like that. Maybe its all here now and one day will cease to be... totally and irrevocably. What we see as permanent is not even remotely so. I believe in God, I have to because without that I do not want to exist at all. I still wonder....

Answer 10

If things which are not proved, scientists start working on the subject and will bring out truth. No need to search, if unbelievable things taken for granted.