How do you feel about the use of tasers on Canadians and visitors to Canada?

Question

Yahoo! Canada Answers Staff note: This is the real Mary Walsh!

Catch Mary on the CBC's genealogy program Who Do You Think You Are? (http://www.cbc.ca/whodoyouthinkyouare/?.ca) on Thursday, November 22, where she will be researching her roots. Through her search for physical traces of her ancestry, Mary encountered some peculiarities of Irish genealogy. Along the way she unearthed daring rescues at sea and horrific stories of religious persecution.

Answer 1

Cops are much too casual about the use of tasers and other "non-fatal" weaponry such as pepper spray. This is either due to inadequate training, or general insensibility, or laziness, or a combination of the above.

I was horrified to learn that there have been 17 deaths from tasers in Canada. 17!!! One is too much. These devices are obviously being used every day without the knowledge of the public and without any oversight.

Such weapons need to be reclassified as "potentially deadly" and their use should be restricted to situations which would also warrant the use of firearms.

All security forces equipped with tasers or pepper spray should be submitted to experiencing them as part of their training so that they can know what they are administering when they use them.

Answer 2

Hi Mary,

I'm truly saddened and sickened at the way Canadians have turned on the very people they call everyday for help; the people who risk their lives everyday so they can feel safe. They sit back and rant at the RCMP, abusing them in a fashion which would not be permitted against any other group I can think of. They make generalized, uninformed and hateful comments, and our own media encourage it with the language they use in covering the YVR incident. Some even place higher value on the lives of violent offenders than they do the people who work so hard, sometimes under terrible circumstances, to keep our neighbourhoods safe.

Complete ignorance of the taser and what it does has become the latest source of fodder for the many anti-police crackheads out there, and it's spread to our "normal" citizens as well. The taser is actually a humane method of subduing a person posing a risk to himself and/or others. The taser is often used now in cases where a firearm - likely to cause death - would have been used. It is also used in cases where assailants would otherwise need to be hit and wrestled, pepper-sprayed and otherwise dealt with using "pain" methods. It is NOT a device of torture or death, as people are now claiming. The pain from a tazer is brief, and the device usually does not leave behind more than a small, minor burn. It is not used because an RCMP officer is being too "lazy" to tackle an offender, or because he's on a "power trip" and wants the offender to submit to him!

I would like to hear the media point out that every RCMP officer out there has been tasered at least once. Every one, and those I know say it's a better experience than being pepper-sprayed. None of the officers have died or have suffered any major injury.

In fact, out of thousands of cases where the taser is used, only 18 have had fatalities. I think you will find that, if you research these cases, the vast majority (perhaps all) of those who died were acting severely agitated, even "crazy", before they were tasered... and frequently, this was due to an illegal drug in their system. A drug that rendered these people very dangerous, in some cases, which would have resulted in their deaths by a firearm, were the taser not available. How many other people have been tasered rather than shot, and are alive and well now?

Were the government to take tasers away from our RCMP officers, it would mean more deaths from shooting (I'm sure the anti-police people and the media alike will jump all over those - so sensational!) and more harm and deaths to our officers. But I'm seriously wondering if my fellow Canadians even care about the latter... how much coverage did the incident in which the last slain officer receive? Almost nothing, compared to the YVR incident!

Is the next call to action, from a very resentful (yeah, we all hate speeding tickets) and ignorant public, to take away firearms? Should our officers just talk nicely to those exhibiting violent behaviour, and hope for the best??

Answer 3

Tasers seemed like a good idea when they were introduced. For people who were under the influence of drugs or alcohol and could not be reasoned with, their use seemed justified, when a person being taken into custody under the influence became violent.

I am deeply concerned now, though, that the use of tasers is the becoming the route officers are taking rather than trying to open communications with citizens in the course of police work. It seems little dialogue goes on before the taser comes out and the person is jolted.

I can only think that being tasered will not result in an appropriate conclusion to any questionnning or criminal apprehension. Being tasered can only foster resentment, anger and/or hatred for the police in general. Regardless of who had the taser in their hand, the entire force is brought to mind when the incident is considered.

I think tasers should be cut way back and there be extremely clear and strict guidelines under which they may be used. There have been too many deaths and the potential for future harm as a result of an electrical jolt so large (for instance aggravation of undetermined heart trouble, seizure disorders or similar medical conditions).

I know police are in a very difficult position. In some areas it is a siege mentality "get them before they get you" with citizens being as well armed, if not better, than the police officers. Also, officers are often alone in a patrol car due to lower force levels than in the past. This places them at a distinct disadvantage if they are cornered by a gang. In such an instance, the taser would not help, it can only control one person at a time and if it's one against a number then the only reasonable choice is get out while you are still alive.

Our officers are in a terrible situation but the answer in most circumstances is not the taser. Some reports I have seen have been for matters as benign as talking back to an officer or not moving fast enough. This is where clarity and control must be regained by Polce Chiefs, Commissioners and our elected officials.

It is a very hard call to make.

H.C. Smith
Ontario Canada

Answer 4

For some strange reason, I believe this incident ought to help highlight the dangers policemen face on a daily basis.
Stranger yet, it doesn’t.
A few things I don't understand...
1. If RCMP personnel are officially issued with tasers for use in the apprehension of a violent person, why are the officers involved in the incident being pilloried?
2. Naturally, the Polish man's death is the tragic result of a misunderstanding brought on by a monumental language barrier, but would everyone have been happier if an RCMP officer were killed instead? Which begs the next question,
3. Why aren’t there more Polish-speaking officers serving with the RCMP? Or Serbo-Croatian? Or Swahili? Or…you get the idea.
4. Should the RCMP officers have asked the rampaging man if he had any health problems before getting a court order to taser him?
5. And, for good measure, did they politely ask him for identification, ascertain he wasn't Canadian, and then give him a jolt?
Here's a newsflash for everyone (Human Rights groups and politicians--elected or not) trying to get in on the feeding frenzy generated by this incident : The RCMP is a truly Canadian organization--not an occupying foreign force. They're on our side. It's their job to keep Canadians safe.
It's easy to second guess the officers' action days after the incident. From what I saw on the video, the fellow was clearly out of control and violent. All I know is I'm glad the RCMP was there--taser or not.
On the other hand, maybe the fellow shooting the video ought to have gone in and reasoned with the distraught man. Now, THAT would have been a true (and rare) display of media courage. Perhaps he doesn’t speak Polish, eh?
Having said that, I don't know why Mary Walsh's opinion on this (or anything else, for that matter) counts for anything more that a sack of mouldy potatoes; nor do I care. I never liked state-sponsored comedians anyway...much less those who pose as non-elected politicians.
Speaking of Mary's genealogy, though, archaeologists have recently discovered fossilized remains of a two-legged barracuda. I wonder if there's a connection...

Answer 5

The Taser (or more properly: an Energy Conducting Device) is an excellent tool for law enforcement. Let's be aware that this is a pain compliance device. There is nothing pretty about its use. There are a lot of things in policework that are not pretty and I'm certain if some individuals dealt with what officers deal with on a regular basis they would quickly realize that things can get nasty quickly and it ain't pretty.
The ECD is simply one tool available to the responding police officer. All Police agencies use "a use of force" model in some form. ECD's can be used when a subject is showing resistant behaviour and if the officers believe that should they move to physically control the subject that he will become combative.
Some people argue that 4 officers should be able to control one individual. Yes that is true, but the likelyhood of injury is greater to both the subject and to the officers. Sometimes if a subject is extremely aggitated it is very difficult to physically contol that individual. That is why the police have a number of tools available to them, the ECD being one.
Police are there to keep the peace and arrest those committing criminal offences. Was the guy at the airport arrestable? Yes, he was causing a disturbance and had committed mischief (property damage).
Some writers have mentioned a police state. Canada is not a police state nor is it going to be a police state. The rule of law in this country is strong and the public simply would not allow it. There are countries in the world that are police states. Simply being able to post your opinions on websites is an indication that we are not a police state.

The ECD is an excellent tool but given the recent death all police forces should review their policy and determine whether there are other devices which would obtain the same effect without the risk of death to the subject.

Answer 6

Recently, the use of tasers has drawn a lot of criticism. But what is the alternative? The use of handguns with a higher probability of killing people or take them all away and place our police officers in live threatening situations?

To better answer that question, we should look at the overall statistics on tasers. How many times were they used without the recipient dying afterwards (whether the taser was the cause of death or not)? How does that death rate compare to the one caused by the use of guns? Does it still look that bad?

The other issue is the safety of police officers. Recently, two RCMP officers lost their lives in the line of duty. If we take away any means of defending themselves, how many more could die during conflicts? How many new recruits will sign up knowing the odds of getting killed on the job have increased? Without guns and tasers, officers will have to rely on their physical abilities to restrain a person resisting arrest. So what will the complaint be then, use of excessive force perhaps??

The point I am trying to make is that tasers are probably a good in-between solution to control law and order if and when needed. Without that we either progress towards a "wild-west" society where the bad guys and gals take over or more people get killed by handguns...

As far as the Vancouver incident is concerned, law enforcement should definitely review the situation and learn from it. On the other hand, it did not look like the guy was going to sit down quietly and wait for a translator to arrive.

Perhaps the procedure of when a taser can and will be used should be defined more clearly and communicated towards the police force and the general public...

Answer 7

I understood these to be a far less physically damaging option to firearms. Still, certainly a more effective option than clubs or physical intervention; and further highlighted by less risk to bystanders and other officers. I am unaware if discharging a Taser has identical protocols to discharging a firearm – it is one so I would think so. Clearly, anytime an officer of the law is in any ‘incident’ it is detailed and documented to the nth degree so I trust this would be as well.

While this incident occurs at a point in the legal process few of us have any experience with, we really can’t comment on why this method was used. So if the question is about this resulting in death – then we have to hope and trust that the appropriate questions will be asked: why are these weapons considered a preferred option – are they producing the results we desire - and can something be done to better understand the impact on the 16 fatalities as opposed to other incidents where death was not a result? Still ban them or put a moratorium on them, just increases the chance it will be a gun used next time and they result in death far more often.

Please allow me the diatribe: I believe it was DJ Chestersun who stated: "we are all in the same boat on a turbulent sea and we owe each other a terrible loyalty"

We not only have to have some blind trust in our system, but in others not to be pushing back or testing the tolerance of fellow citizens by any means that risk their and our safety! It is even more common some are just using a strong-arm tactic to achieve an end! Too often we are seeing behavior from a person that is so selfish, so near the border of offensiveness, or so beyond reasonable contextual behavior that we know it’s just a matter of time before someone gets tired of them and does something about it! Whether these are officers of the law or concerned citizens of the general public, once it gets to this point of intolerance it just never ends well.

Do I have a problem with Tasers? No more than hand guns, or fist-a-cuffs, or mental intimidation… unfortunately the problem is bigger than what weapon is used and you just can’t be certain when, where, or why some will stand up and say they have had enough.

Answer 8

Hi Mary,
Fellow NL here. I feel it's time the Law enforcement stop treating people like animals and the use of Tasers which is similar to the cattle prod should be outlawed. What happened to common sense and training I remember years ago a RCMP officer sargent Gillett who was stationed in Clarenville who would singlehandedly wade into bar fights and drag the culprits off to jail if need be.. What I found dispicable about the recent taser insident at vancouver airport was the fact that FOUR hairy arsed, as you would say mary, men couldn't take down this man without the use of a taser while Airport security just stood around enjoying the "FUN". This man was not armed for god sake he came on Air canada. If you read about the Gestapo you will learn that these people yes Hitlers elite SS used similar devices. I am happy that NL, "the backward province" was the first to ban the use of Tasers until the studies have been complete.

Answer 9

From all that I've heard lately it appears that most people believe tasers are an alternative to firearms and lethal force when subduing violent subjects. But a taser is not useful against an armed person, so it is not really an alternative to a gun.

A taser, according to the manufacturer, is intended to temporarily disable someone who might otherwise have to be subdued with clubs or fists or other direct physical force. If used in that fashion then I support taser use without reservation. However I also believe that more thought needs to go into the protocols which dictate the use of tasers.

There is certainly something suspicious about people being killed when they are being apprehended by the police, regardless of the methods used. These need to be investigated on a case-by-case basis. Until there is scientific evidence that one or more deaths have actually been caused by tasers (slim to none right now) then we must avoid the trap of assuming a cause and effect relationship.

In the case of the gentleman at the Vancouver Airport I am much more concerned that it appears that the police took no steps to attempt to save the man's life with CPR. They are supposed to be trained in life-saving methods.

Answer 10

Let's make it mandatory. Make it a condition of getting a driver's licence, or before you can legally take that first drink or when you show up on Canada's doorstep. If nothing else it would be in a controlled environment where your reaction can be more easily monitored. It may keep a few weak minded individuals from doing as many really stupid things. As an added bonus it would give the medicos and engineers a chance to improve the design.

All kidding aside it's better than the current alternative. In an enclosed space pepper spray will just as likely get the person using it. Like any other it's a tool that can be misused. have the officers using it been trained on how to use it safely and what to do in the case of a bad reaction? You'll find lazy SOBs in any profession. Before you call this an epidemic of bad policing check the usage stats and and figure out what the problem really is.

The fellow in the airport had his troubles compounded by the fact he either couldn't speak the local language or was so out of it he couldn't remember what to say. I doubt I would react well if someone who was armed and I couldn't understand started shouting orders at me. I wonder if there is a demonstrated need for a translation service the officers could have called. Most new cell phones can easily be used as a speaker phone. Having a means to communicate may have made a large difference

Answer 11

Hi Mary.

This whole taser thing makes me nervous, especially since it seems every police depatment or the Mounties have their own protocol for its use.

They say it doesn't kill anyone , rather it's underlying conditions like heart problems that kill people, but how do the police know this.

I saw the tape of the guy in Vancouver and it didn't seem that the RCMP really tried that hard to subdue the man, they seemed trigger happy. Shoot first ask questions later.

I truthfully think that Immigration and Security at the Vancouver airport could and should have provided a translator or at least paged to see if someone spoke polish. Ten hours in an airport , where you are detained and don't speak the language would make anyone angry and frustrated.

Since the Mounties are a federal police force should the government in consultation with the Mounties not make the protocol about when and where to use a taser.

Let's face it we all know that there are some police who get the uniform and the weaponry and think they're super cop and rambo rolled up into one and that they can shoot first and ask questions later.

Since 9/11 common sense has flown out the window and fear and irrational behaviour has become the norm, even in Canada . This incident should have never happened.