Do you think "under God" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance?

Question

Why or why not?

I'm undecided on this one. I'm a Christian, so I don't mind the phrase. In fact, I like it. :) On the other hand, the people who put the phrase in the Pledge in the first place were hypocrites, as they thought that these two words would save the U.S. from the Communists back in the '50s, but as most everyone who has lived in America for a long time knows, America (in general) doesn't exactly follow the ways of God. Saying God's name and then renouncing Him won't save anybody.

Fedup: What do you think the Founding Fathers would say? They didn't create the Pledge. They never even saw it.

"United States" wasn't in the very first version, either. I'll have to get the specifics from a buddy of mine who wrote a speech on why "under God" should be taken out. She had some very interesting facts that I think both sides would be interested in seeing. (But I don't remember them right now...)

Boomer Wisdom: Has it been removed from most schools? This would be the first time I've heard of it. Sure, people now have the option of not saying it if they don't want to, but it hasn't been completely removed. I don't say it because it has no meaning today. It SHOULD say something like this:

"I pledge allegiance
to the flag
of the Divided States of America,
and to the republic,
for which it apparently does not stand;
one nation,
under fraud,
very divisible,
with liberty and justice for some.

Prosperous One: Yes, indeed!

Forget about most of what I said earlier. I don't think the phrase "under God" should be removed. Sure, it has almost no meaning today, but there's no doubt this country was indeed based on Christianity. If you don't believe me, take a look at this:

http://www.eadshome.com/FoundingFathersflash1.htm

Some of the answerers have made me realize that it doesn't matter what we think of the Pledge. God just won't ignore us. And many people who deny God now would call on Him to save them in a life-threatening situation. When a big scare hits, who will the people first turn to? God. Just look at the '50s. When everybody was scared that the Communists would take over, that phrase, "under God", was added to the Constitution. Though many people did not profess to be Christians, they turned to God in a time of trouble. That "under God" principle is deep down inside. So deep that some people refuse to look for it and say that it doesn't exist. But it is definitely there.

Thank you, Bert.

Forget about my "revised version" of the Pledge. I think it should remain as it is.

Answer 1

This question makes me sad. Read my whole answer and then ask yourself what the Founders would say. This answer is not 1/100th as long as it could be but I know if I make it any longer no one will read it......

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists but by Christians: not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity and freedom of worship here."Patrick Henry

John Winthrop, the first governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony stated his vision of this new society that was coming to be this way...
"We shall be a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people are upon us, so that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall be made a story and a byword through all the world."

" Amongst other strange things said of me, I hear it is said by the Deists that I am one of their number: and. indeed that some good people think I am no Christian. Yhis thought gives me much more painthan the appellation of Troy; because I think religion of infinitely more importance than politics; and I find much cause to reproach myself that I have lived so long and have given no decided and public proofs of my being a Christian. But, indeed, my dear child, this is the character which I prize far above all this world has, or can boast."
PATRICK HENRY, in a letter to his daughter 1796

"America seeks no earthly empire built on blood and force.No ambition, no temptation, lures her to thought of foreign dominions. The legions which she sends forth are armed, not with the sword, but with the cross. The higher state to which she seeks the allegiance of all mankind is not of human, but of divine origin. She cherishes no purpose save to merit the favor of Almighty God."

~ Calvin Coolidge, 30th American President

" My hope in the One who created us all sustains me: He is a ever present help in trouble...CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS Book of Prophesies

"Therefore let the king and queen, the princes and their most fortunate kingdoms, and all other countries of Christendom give thanks to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who has bestowed upon us so great a victory and gift. Let religious processions be solemnized: let sacred festivals be given: let the churches be covered with festive garlands. Let Christ rejoice on earth, as He rejoices in heaven, when he forsees coming to salvation so many souls of people hitherto lost. "CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS 1942 Library of Classics

Columbus believed he was living in the last days. He wrote in his Book Of Prophesies: "the Holy Scriptures testify in the Old Testament, by the mouth of the prophets, and in the New Testament, by our Savior Jesus Christ, that this world will come to an end: Matthew, mark, and Luke have recorded the signs of the end of the age... And I say that the sign that convinces me that our Lord is hastening the end of the world is the preaching of the Gospel recently in so many lands.".... ..He not only wanted to open a new trde route, but wanted to bring the Gospel to the ends of the earth. In the words of the WORLD BOOK ENCYCLOPEDIA he wanted to " recapture Jerusalem from the Muslims. There he said he would rebuild the Jews' holy Temple and bring on a new 'Age of the Holy Spirit." He wanted to liberate Christ's holy sepulcher from Muslim ownership back to Christian control. Because of all this, George Grant calls him"tThe last crusader" (One Nation Under God)

"Columbus' use of the Bible is one of the best documented facts of his remarkable career, but it is one of the least known to the general public." August J. King- Moody Monthly- October 1972

" To Columbus, the voyage westward was a way of reaching the Orient, and after Christianizing the Orient, joining forces with Asia to turn back the threat of Islam" JOHN EIDSMORE Columbus & Cortez

1 Chrisropher Columbus was motivated by his Christian faith to make his difficult voyage.
2 The Pilgrims clearly stated that they came to the New World to glorify God and to advance the Christian faith.
3 The Puritans who followed the Pilgrims to New England, created a Bible based commonwealths in order to practice a representative government that was modeled on their church covenants. Their more than 100 governmental covenants and compacts essentially laid the foundation for Americas Constitution, which was drafted in 1787 and ratified in 1789.
4 This nation was founded in large measure as a sanctuary for religious dissidents, seeking asylum from religious pesecution and seeking the opportunity to live in freedom under the laws of God.
5 The education of the settlers and the founders of America was uniquely Christian and Bible based.More than 40% of the signers of the Declaration of Independence had seminary degrees.
6 The Great Awakening, a religious revival, was a key factor in uniting the seperate pre - Revelutionary War colonies and increasing communication among them.
7 Many of the clergy in American colonies "preached liberty" The pulpits of New England were especially important in helping to bring about independence.. Long before the general population understood the threat to American liberty, some colonial ministers saw what was coming and boldly spoke out about it from their pulpits.
8 Biblical Christianity was the driving force behind the men who championed American independence.
9 Christianity played a significant role in the development of our nations birth certificate, the Declaration of Independence.The Declaration of Independence metions God four times.
10 The Biblical understanding of the sinfullness of man was the guiding principle behind the United States Constitution.. The framers of the Constitution drew their inspiration from the Bible. They intended America to be one nation under God.

"It is impossible to govern the world without God and the Bible." George Wahington

George Washington
Taken straight from George Washingtons prayer journal..http://www.eadshome.com/WashingtonPrayer...
O most glorious God in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving father, I acknowledge and confess my guilt, in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day..I have called on Thee for pardon and forgiveness of sins...sounds pretty Christian to me.Unless diests pray to Jesus.Not!

official actions of Jefferson -
legislative and military chaplains
establishing a national seal using a religious symbol
including the word" God " in our national motto
official days of fasting and prayer at the state level
punishing sabbath breakers
punishing marriages contrary to biblical law punishing irreverent soldiers
protecting the property of churches
requiring oaths saying "so help me God taken on the Bible
granting land to Christian churches to reach the Indians
granting land to Christian schools
Allowing government property and facilities to be used for worship
using the Bible and non denominational religious publications to be used in public schools(He was involved in three different school districts and the plan in each one of these required that the Bible be taught in each our public schools
Allowing clergymen to hold pubic office, and encouraging them to do so
Purchasing religious books to stock public libraries
funding clergy salaries in Indian mission schools
Funding construction of church building for Indians
Exempting churches from taxation
Establishing professional schools of theology( He wanted to bring over from Geneva, Switzerland the entire faculty of Calvin's theological seminary and establish it at the University of Virginia)
Treaties requiring other nations to guarantee religious freedom
including religious speeches and prayers in ceremonies
Doesn't sound like the actions of one who would remove the freedom of worship or "separate church and state." The separation of church and state IS NOT in our Constitution.Thomas Jefferson was not even in the Constitutional convention !

The precepts of philosophy, and of the Hebrew code, laid hold of actions only. He (Jesus) pushed His scrutiniesinto the heart of man; erected His tribunal in the region of his thoughts, and purified the waters at the fountainhead. - Jefferson memoir, vol.!!! page 509 from his "Syllabus of an Estimate of the Merits of the doctrines of Jesus, Compared With Those of Others" sent to Benjamin Rush on April 21st, 1803.

No power over the freedom of religion..is delegated to the United States by the Constitution.Thomas Jefferson; KENTUCKY RESOLUTION, 1798

In matters of religion I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the Constitution independent of the powersof the general [Federal} government. Thomas Jefferson; SECOND INAUGURAL ADDRESS, 1805

Our excellent Constitution...has not placed our religious rightsunder the power of and public functionary. Thomas Jefferson; LETTER TO THE METHODIST EPISCOPAL CHURCH, 1808

I consider the government of the United States as interdicted (prohibited)by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions... or exercises. Thomas Jefferson. LETTER TO SAMUEL MILLER, 1808.

"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have lost the only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath."Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1794

I think its pretty clear, as I once heard it said, "the real Thomas Jefferson is the ACLU's biggest nightmare."

Representatives from all the American colonies got together in 1643 and ratified the New England Confederation, which declared: We all came to these parts of America for one and the same end and aim, to advance the kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ.


John Quincy adams, our sixth president, said," The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." (Quoted from The Christian History Of The United States Verna M. Hall 1966)


John Adams proposed that when Americas future citizens celebrated The Declaration of Independence, they should have religious services to thank God for what He had brought about. President Adams said Independence Day should" be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary festival, commemorated as the day of deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty, from one end of the continent to the other, from this time forward and forevermore."

John Adams wrote and distributed a book for 10 year olds that was to teach them how to read the Bible while he was in office.

John Adams warned his countrymen:
We have no government armed with power capable of controlling with human passions, unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strong cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholy in adequate to the government of any other.

The vast majority of delegates who attended the Constitutional Convention were professing Christians. Only Ben Franklin and James Wilson of Pennsylvania were known to be Deists.

Ben Franklins speech at the Constitutional Convention:
Mr. President. The small progress we have made after four or five weeks close attendance and continual reasoning with each other - our different sentiments on almost every question, several of the last producing as many noes as ayes, is me thinks a meloncholy proof of the imperfection of the human understanding.
We indeed seem to feel our own want of political wisdom, since we have been running about in search of it. We have gone back to ancient history for models of government, and examined the different forms of those republics which, have been formed with the seeds of their own dissolution, now no longer exist.And we have viewed modern states all around Europe, but find none of their Constitutions suitable to our circumstances.
In this situation of this assembly, groping as it were in the dark, to find political truth and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understanding?
In the beginning of the contes with Great Britan, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayer in this room for Divine protection - Our prayers,Sir, were heard & they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending Providence in our favor.
To that kind of Providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity.And have we now forgotten that powerful Friend?Or do we imagine that we no longer need His assistance?
I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth - that God governs in the affairs of men.And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice , it is probable that an empire can rise without His aid?
We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that "except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it"(Psalm 127:1) I firmly believe this; I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the Builders of Babel: we shall be divided by our partial local interests: our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages.
And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by human wisdom, and leave it to chance, war and conquest.
I therefor beg leave to move - that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of heaven, and it's blessings on our deliberations, be held in this assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service."

Here was probably the least religious of the Founding Fathers calling for prayer and quoting scripture
Congress has opened every session with prayer from the first (September1774)to the most recent.

I am always astounded at the amount of partial truths that have been used to rewrite our history and how some statements are taken out of context and used to give a totally false impression of their meanings... for example George Washington's opting out of communion.. It is being used to try and give the impression he was anti communion. Nothing could be further from the truth...He decided at one point that it was not fitting for him to take communion while he was fighting the war against the British and killing soldiers. They use this one instance to make their case. However the truth abut him is that he was the kind of Christian who at one time journeyed a long distance, to the home of a Presbyterian pastor to ask if he could take communion in their church(some churches did not allow others to participate in communion if they did not belong to their church, and he was Anglican and there were no Anglican churches in the town he was at.) Washington did join them in communion and there is a record of this.The very first act of George Washington as president was to bend down and reverently kiss the Bible after being sworn in.He would retire to his library with a candle from 9:00 till 10:00 every evening for prayer and bible study. A fact that is well documentedTher were many times that certain emergencies arose and people would have to seek his attention and would find him on his knees praying before an open bible. Those that knew him closely wrote of him as a devoted Christian.

I hear people say that Lincoln was an atheist...yes he was just as I used to be but I am now Christian.Listen to what Lincoln himself said..."When I was in Springfield I asked the people to pray for me. I was not a Christian. When I buried my son, I was not a christian But when I went to Gettysburg and saw the graves of thousands of our soldiers, I then and there consecrated myself to Christ. Yes I do love Jesus." Those are Lincolns own words. No one can tell me he was an atheist no more than they can tell me that I am one now, even though I was one in the past. If you read my letters before 1981 I would seem to be an atheist.

By the way, James Madison's first draft of the religion clause of the First Amendment is as stated:
" The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief of worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of Conscience be in any manner, or on any pretext, infringed."
That should make it clear to anyone who want to know the real truth that the Anti Christian society we have in force today is as far from originally intended as possible.It was VERY SIMPLY written because there were numerous Christian denominations and the Founding Fathers wisely built in safeguards so that no one sect could lord over others as the Catholics had in England from which they came.

Take a walk around our nation's capitol.View the monuments such as The Lincoln and Jefferson Memorials. You cannot read them without reading the word "God" carved in stone somewhere.Religious paintings grace the Halls of our government buildings in glorious testament to the value our Founding Fathers placed on religion.

The Northwest Ordinance is one of the principle documents in the history of the founding of America...it states: "Religion, morality and knowledge being essential to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged."
Here we see why the Bible used as text books in our schools, and our Univerities teaching Theology was no misunderstanding of the Constitution.

The first Congress of the United States, the very day after they approved the First Amendment, passed an act establishing Chaplains for the Army, Navy , the Senate and the House. Do you think that they didn't understand the Constitution they had just written and approved?The only way that one can come to the conclusion that the Founders of this country intended a purely secular state, where the state is
" neutral" (translate "hostile") to religion is by selective History They base their decisions on a FEW selective passages from our history and ignore the mountain of evidence to the contrary.

I recommend the writing of George Bancroft (1800-1891) a historian who's writings precede the edited versions we get today with our Christian history erased and distorted.
You are a Christian. Your job is to pray for your nation...1 Timothy 2:1,2 Therefore I exort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men,2 for kings and for all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peacable life in all godliness and reverence. You are to be salt and light.Salt is the substance that keeps down the rot. Let's be about our Saviors business of spreading the Gospel and praying for our leaders and for revival for our nation.
2 Ch. 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Answer 2

It's amazing when you bring up a topic such as this how many shallow minds can't resist showing their complete ignorance on the subject.

They actually disagree with the whole pledge because they owe allegiance to no one. They are so pathetic that they'll take nourishment from the tit of the Nation that they find so vile and repulsive. They should be shunned by both man and beast.

I do not believe that there is a religion that doesn't mention God in their prayers. What ever they may call whom ever they worship,they still call them God. Why?

Perhaps a few of you need to study the Constitution for the first time,(by your statements you couldn't have)instead of parroting some brain dead blog. If you want (which is doubtful)to find out what the Founding Fathers meant by separation of church and state try reading The Federalist Papers.
yakngirl; thank you for the used to be.

Answer 3

Good rewrite. I don't know if we should remove the phrase or not either. It's been a long time since elementary school when I went to public school, so I have a couple questions. Do schools still make children say the Pledge of Allegiance? Do they teach children what the Pledge of Allegiance means? I'm asking because when I was in school we had to say it and because I remember of boy in my third grade class who asked the teacher what the Pledge of Allegiance meant and he had to miss recess as a punishment for asking. I think if school children have to say the pledge at all they should be taught what it means.

Answer 4

No it should not be removed for this reason., "The Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF." Emphasis added. By taking out the Under God, we are saying that we cannot say it if we want to. With over 60% of Americans claiming the Christian faith, we should not take out that phrase to keep from offending a small percentage that would actually be offended. What percentage of atheists or anyone else would even be offended anyway? Keep Under God in the pledge.

Answer 5

I really don't care. "Under God" this nation is doing ungodly deeds, yet we focus on things like a schoolroom pledge and ignore the real issues. Kids say this just about daily in every school (and the words "Under God" have not been removed), yet most of them could not give you an explanation of what they are saying. To them, they are just words. I used to be a teacher (middle school) and when my students complained about saying the pledge, I always told them to think of it as saying thank you for the education.

Answer 6

No, but the Antichrist shall bring down everything that has to do with Almighty God and draw the world into an allegiance only to him and the world will do so, just as Germany did unto Hitler. He will cause them to receive His Mark in order to buy or sell. Go to trumpetmin.org and clock could this be the mark?

Answer 7

No, absolutely not. If someone is offended by it, then maybe they should consider going back to their homeland, or moving elsewhere. America is a predominantly Christian, and English speaking society. Everyone should accept these facts or consider going elsewhere if they have an issue with God, Jesus, Christmas, or Christianity.

Answer 8

I believe it has been removed in most public schools. Not just the term, but the entire pledge.

"God" is such a generic philosophical and theological term, that it cannot constitute a breach of the establishment clause.

And since the generic "God" term universally relates to "The Creator", we can assume that people who believe in atheism, if they were proven right, would simply cease to have ever existed.

Shine them on, and tell the Marxists to shut up. Say the pledge however you wish, and remember you have no freedom of religion without that nation you pledge allegiance to.

Answer 9

This country was built on Christian values...we have in God we trust on our money and the name of God is in SEVERAL places within our government AND on Government buildings unbeknownst to most people. I have no problem with the words being in the Pledge of Allegiance. The people who have a problem with it are the hypocrites. Who is the first person they'd be praying to if their kids school was under attack? Or better yet, who would their KID be asking for help? GOD just like the rest of the kids/teachers there!!!

Answer 10

Saying God's name and then renouncing Him won't save anybody. That’s very true; however they have tried to have God's name removed, and failed, Praise God.

Answer 11

No, I dont think that it should be removed. The word 'god' can mean any god, christian or otherwise. If someone still doesn't like it, they can leave it out.